A460 cylinder head question

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A460 cylinder head question

Post  bruno on August 25th 2011, 9:47 pm

what kind of work/design does it take to do a 2.490-inch intake valves and 1.830-inch exhaust valves , is that common practice or is this a really custom piece.
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  138 on August 25th 2011, 10:15 pm

bruno wrote:what kind of work/design does it take to do a 2.490-inch intake valves and 1.830-inch exhaust valves , is that common practice or is this a really custom piece.
youre starting to worry me... Suspect

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  cool40 on August 25th 2011, 10:30 pm

my IDT's have 2.5/1.880.i dont know if you could do the same with TFS heads.the chamber on my heads is kinda big tho.100cc as thay came cnc'd from Jay.
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  rmcomprandy on August 25th 2011, 10:37 pm

The TFS heads would need different seats in the heads for that size valves.

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  dfree383 on August 26th 2011, 7:26 am

Nick step away from the keyboard...... Laughing
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IDT A Plus Cylinder Head

Post  IDTJay on August 26th 2011, 10:34 am

The A Plus cylinder head is offered from a 2.45" to 2.50" intake valve and from 1.82" to 1.88" exhaust valve. The peak airflow for the A Plus head is over 510 cfm on the intake and 350 cfm on the exhaust (depending on flow benches) with a large bore. The A Plus head was created for a bigger displacement engine (over 600 cid and bore diameters at 4.600" or larger) or use in classes were the C head was outlawed. The intake port matches to any newer TFS intakes including the tunnel ram. The first set went to Chris Holbrook a few years ago for an all motor class engine and produced some very good hp numbers.

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  c.evans on August 26th 2011, 1:09 pm

bruno wrote:what kind of work/design does it take to do a 2.490-inch intake valves and 1.830-inch exhaust valves , is that common practice or is this a really custom piece.

Nick,

Previously I attended the Darin Morgan Cylinder Head and Induction class/school and in his textbook he devotes 7 pages to proper valve sizing. One of the questions he asks, and then explains, is; "how big is too big"? For canted valve heads, he's saying the maximum size is 52-53%, and for rotated canted valve heads the maximum size is 53-54%,,,,,, of the bore diameter. That's with the valve locations and pierce points being ideally located in a racing head.

Therefore, I'd say your 2.490" intake valve is just a little too big for an A-460 head, and it is not that common of a practice. Yes, it would be a really custom piece.

Darin goes on and gives supporting data of 2.450" intake valves, out running 2.500" intake valves in an actual engine, due to better valve efficiency and flow efficiency. There was a 40 Hp loss when they switched to the bigger valve. Like the Hooter's t-shirts say, you can have "more than a mouthful".

Charlie

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  bruno on August 26th 2011, 2:54 pm

dfree383 wrote:Nick step away from the keyboard...... Laughing

i cant ......
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Valve Sizing - A Plus Head

Post  IDTJay on August 26th 2011, 3:01 pm

Charlie,
In my previous post I spoke of the A Plus head being used for larger bores, 4.600" or larger and larger engine displacement. The A Plus head is offered from 2.45" to 2.50". Listed below are percentages for the bore to valve diameter. They are within 1% of Darin Morgan's criteria. I do understand that just inserting a larger valve into a head does not yield more performance and often can hurt performance. The port design, chamber design including seat machining with throat diameter, valve shrouding, compression ratio, charge motion architecture, type/amount of fuel, cam profile with rocker arm geometry and valve lift all play an important role into finding the best valve size for each application. Design parameters do evolve with time. Today's NHRA prostock engines (canted valve design) do use 55% to 56% intake valve to bore ratio and they are making over 3 hp per cubic inch. IHRA Prostock engine have a 54% to 56% intake valve to cylinder bore ratio. The Chris Holbrook engine using the A Plus heads did make 2.06 hp per cubic inch with a ratio intake valve to bore ratio of 54%. I thought that was pretty good with the limitations of the A head design.

Valve Size
Bore 2.450 2.500
4.600 53.3 54.3
4.625 53.0 54.1
4.650 52.7 53.8
4.670 52.5 53.5
4.675 52.4 53.5
4.700 52.1 53.2
4.705 52.1 53.1
4.725 51.9 52.9


Last edited by IDTJay on August 26th 2011, 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  Tennessee Bullitt on August 26th 2011, 3:03 pm

Come on Nick we will attack these A-heads together..... Very Happy Your getting in my ally now.
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  dfree383 on August 26th 2011, 3:11 pm

I agree with you Jay, their are applications where large valves are appropriate. PS being one of them, but those application are very specialized.

For average Joe weekend warriors, it may not be the best route. 2.35 Valves and small ports are much more forgiving.
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  rmcomprandy on August 26th 2011, 5:00 pm

I believed the question was NOT how they would work but, whether or not they would physically fit and what would be required to do so.

I have first hand experience that on an SBC engine with a 4.020" bore and a wedge head, the power picked up everywhere from 3,000 RPM to 6,200 RPM by simply increasing the intake valve size from 2.020, (50.2%) to a valve size of 2.140", (53.2%), and this was certainly no racing engine. It had a hydraulic roller camshaft under .600" valve lift.

Or is it that small engines don't count...?

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  rmcomprandy on August 26th 2011, 5:01 pm

I would presume that a canted valve head engine can use more intake valve diameter than an inline valve headed engine.

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  Tennessee Bullitt on August 26th 2011, 5:14 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:I would presume that a canted valve head engine can use more intake valve diameter than an inline valve headed engine.


How big has people gone on the a heads? 2.45 intakes?
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  IDT-572 on August 26th 2011, 5:16 pm

4.060 bore 414 Windsor with Aluminum C302b heads 2.190 intake valve flat top pistons 53.9 % 6.20's 3000 lb
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  bruno on August 26th 2011, 5:56 pm

thanks guys for the input ,

another question about the tfs a heads , what would be the advantages of angle milling them for helping out the peak flow #s while keeping mid flow #s intact and this of course would be with the 2.490 deal
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  138 on August 26th 2011, 7:24 pm

why dont you tell us... you've already spoke to wade. silent

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  bruno on August 26th 2011, 8:14 pm

138 wrote:why dont you tell us... you've already spoke to wade. silent

i did speak to wade's engine designer , but i want a better set and why not get them from the premier Big Block Ford site Twisted Evil
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  138 on August 26th 2011, 8:58 pm

I spoke with tony as well, he said and quote "what class you runnin, and how much you wanna spend?"...thats when I realized I was into deep, and that I was trying to hard.

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  cool40 on August 26th 2011, 9:00 pm

Tennessee Bullitt wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I would presume that a canted valve head engine can use more intake valve diameter than an inline valve headed engine.


How big has people gone on the a heads? 2.45 intakes?
these are my 903A+ heads from Jay,2.5 intake,1.880 ex. they are goen on a 4.625 bore.
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  rmcomprandy on August 26th 2011, 9:22 pm

cool40 wrote:
Tennessee Bullitt wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I would presume that a canted valve head engine can use more intake valve diameter than an inline valve headed engine.


How big has people gone on the a heads? 2.45 intakes?
these are my 903A+ heads from Jay,2.5 intake,1.880 ex. they are goen on a 4.625 bore.

Nice head ...

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  cool40 on August 26th 2011, 9:53 pm

thanks Randy.i have a pic somewhere with the ti valves Charlie got for me. Very Happy
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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  rmcomprandy on August 27th 2011, 12:14 am

cool40 wrote:thanks Randy.i have a pic somewhere with the ti valves Charlie got for me. Very Happy

I meant that I've seen, even handled, the real things and they are nice, lol.

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  bruno on August 27th 2011, 7:57 am

Jay,

would there be any additional chamber work required to make the cylinder heads( a+) work better on the hose ?

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Re: A460 cylinder head question

Post  bruno on August 29th 2011, 9:53 pm

cool40 wrote:
Tennessee Bullitt wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I would presume that a canted valve head engine can use more intake valve diameter than an inline valve headed engine.


How big has people gone on the a heads? 2.45 intakes?
these are my 903A+ heads from Jay,2.5 intake,1.880 ex. they are goen on a 4.625 bore.

what intake are you going with ?
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