Re: Disappointed Dyno Results

rmcomprandy on November 15th 2011, 11:52 pm

Oakley Motorsports wrote:
1markd wrote:Dave Bamber built C460 headed 598, Gary Sellin tuned and dynamometer. I’m a little disappointed in the results, looking for advice. 1040 HP @ 6900; 825 ft. lbs. @5600. Ron’s terminator injected on methanol. I suspect the camshaft is the culprit. Isky # 311800, WW 1.8 rockers give it a number like this.
.824 .824 .288 .304 @ .050
Gary Sellin thinks the throttle body is too small, (2100 cfm)
Looking for recommendations
Mark

I am sure I will receive the riot act after this post but Are you guys crazy? This engine is definately an under performer. This gentlemen evidently paid alot of money hoping to recieve a badass engine and didnt. People can say what they want but there are those out there busting their butts to make good power and there are those that dont. 1040 c- headed engine is a dont. This is exactly why the c-head gets a bad rap. I run A-heads, I am sponsored by trick flow and I feel they are the best bang for the buck but if you think c-heads will not out perform a-heads you are mistaken. If a terminator would do anything it will put a ton of torque in this thing and looks like its about 70 down.

I in no way tried to step on anybodies feelings with a c-head engine but facts are facts. This is exactly why customers call to buy and engine and you say something about a c-head and they go oh know so and so has one of those and it doesnt run very good. Engine builders need to take some responsibility and give people what they pay for. I am not saying its the case here but more than not it is. jmo

An engine like this says NOTHING about the compression ratio or cylinder heads other than they are a "C" head.
Personally, I have seen some pretty bad "C" heads in one way or another. Some of those you can do nothing with unless you remove all the seats and weld metal back into the ports and refinish the entire head. At that point you may as well get a new head or pretty much "take what you get".
Simply because a certain engine builder builds an engine, (Dave Bamber who is pretty well known), it doesn't mean he had complete control of what was used in that engine build;
Ford, Chevrolet or Mopar.
1040 horsepower for THAT engine could be a good number OR it could be a terrible number dependent upon EVERYTHING involved.

BOSS 429 on November 16th 2011, 12:00 am

1markd wrote:Dave Bamber built C460 headed 598, Gary Sellin tuned and dynamometer. I’m a little disappointed in the results, looking for advice. 1040 HP @ 6900; 825 ft. lbs. @5600. Ron’s terminator injected on methanol. I suspect the camshaft is the culprit. Isky # 311800, WW 1.8 rockers give it a number like this.
.824 .824 .288 .304 @ .050
Gary Sellin thinks the throttle body is too small, (2100 cfm)
Looking for recommendations
Mark

Dave Bamber,Gary S, are both great engine guys, maybe something else is wrong,

you should just be talking to dave, he'll fig it out

cool40 on November 16th 2011, 12:16 am

3 sides to every story.... Smile

jesse on November 16th 2011, 4:17 am

what about the dyno?
for example the shop were i get my stuff done at
did a steve schmidt motor on stevs dyno it made 1200hp
on the dyno i was on the motor made just over 1100 hp
almost a 100 hp dif between dynos
my a head deal made 786hp and i was very disapointed
i have a
4.500 bore 4.150 stroke
1250 qft
a good cam from lem
custom dimonds 14-1 comp
fuel is vp114
heads a c&c ported donr have a flow sheet but was told 460 max on the int
but my motor runs great and hangs in there with big duke and big cheif gm motrs that make 1000 hp
true i could go to a differnt dyno or a few differnt dynos till i get what i think it should have
but how honest is that?

LivermoreDave on November 16th 2011, 9:34 am

Cylinder head upgrade, camshaft change, fuel pump and/or type of fuel change? Keep us informed if you decide to go in any or all of these directions, will the expense justify your destination?

Dave.

1markd on November 18th 2011, 9:10 pm

Good conversation Guys, Dave & Gary are both top notch engine guys, that being said this is my combination they assembled. Gary did say he has many egnines he has dynoed that made the 1100 hp and out ran all the claimed 1300 hp advertised engines on the market. He recived my notrous kit today and will hit it with 200 and 300 shot. Bamber did the cylinder heads and intake, titanium intake & exhust. 500/385 @900. Motor sounds very clean. It's a starting point. Garys dyno is a inertia style that he built and quite a piece of art, the workmanship is outstanding. will keep you posted
Mark

1markd on December 10th 2011, 2:54 pm

Talked to Gary today and they got it as good as it's going to get. Got the oiling issue figured out, different pan, pump and custom pickup. The low horse power and tourqe is due to the camshaft we belive. The Nitrous Woke It Up! 1050 @ 6900 on motor, I can bracket race with that. 1240 @ 7200 with a 100 shot, 1360 at 7400 with a 200 shot with 1100 ft lbs. Didn't try the 300 shot. Gary and Dave have be outstanding to work with and have earned my future business.

rmcomprandy on December 10th 2011, 5:58 pm

A lot of what you say is what is really difficult to explain to some customers.
An engine designed to run WITH nitrous is usually a dog when run normally aspirated.
An engine designed to run normally aspirated will pick-up with nitrous but, not to near the same degree.

Lem Evans on December 10th 2011, 8:53 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:A lot of what you say is what is really difficult to explain to some customers.
An engine designed to run WITH nitrous is usually a dog when run normally aspirated.
An engine designed to run normally aspirated will pick-up with nitrous but, not to near the same degree.

I agree with most of what you say...it's a trade off some times...but I've seen used cams offered for sale on both of the 460/429/370/429/460 sites that were touted as spray cams that were 4* short on the exh. duration and 1* or 2* too narrow on the LSA to be a good "on-the-engine unit". Most everything is open to interpretation... Smile