New Carb Help

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blow thru help

Post  all junk on September 15th 2009, 8:45 pm

i have a barry grant blow thru pvcr drilled to.094 102 front 104 in back fuel pressure set at 9psi and still goes lean about 100 ft. out any help 523 bbf 8.6/1 comp kasse scj 748 solid roller 114 lobe sep. f-1 procharger at only 10 lbs. timing is locked at 24 degrees c-4 4000 conv. 4.30 gear 28/10.5 hossier 82 coupe all aeromotive fuel system with boost referanced reg. please help im lost at what to do next
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 15th 2009, 8:52 pm

What size carburetor is it? How much duration at .050 does the cam have? In regards to the delivery system is it a stock fuel tank or a fuel cell? What size vent does it have on it? What size line to and from the pumps?

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 15th 2009, 8:54 pm

Also what kind of filter are you using and how many gph is it rated at?

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 15th 2009, 11:38 pm

850 blow thru comp cams 256/262 @.050 12 gallon cell -10 feed -10 return -8 vent aeromotive part #027-12304 filter with 100 micron stainless filter filter rated from 200-1000 h.p. fuel pump ia part # 027-11104 aeromotive eliminator pump up tp 1100 h.p. forced induction 800 + lbs. per hour universal reg. part #027-13301 with pressure set at 9 psi. at idle -10 all the way to reg. -6 from reg. to carb.was told by kevin at csu carbs ? that fuel system was more than enough but he just did not care for the barry grant carb. i was told it wood work you just had to get it rich as hell to start and come back from there the 102-104 jets are still not rich just on motor with those jets car ran 6.46 w/141 60 ft. @109 mph.best et to date on motor with 84/95 jets car ran 6.52 144/60 ft. at 107 mph.and 34 degrees timing on motor plugs are a sandy color all the way up the porcelaim inside the threads no head work only thing done to them was purchased bare and assembled with 2.250/1.880 stainless valves.
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 4:59 am

Whats the base fuel psi and what reg are you running what is the afr going to how many psi of boost are you seeing what is the hp are you running twin seats? need all the info you can give us Jason
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 6:01 am

9 psi at idle fuel comes up on 1 to 1 02 in headers and volt meter is reading .96 idle 1.03 at wot arond 12 psi boost just single needle and seats was told this carb was good to 16-18 psi boost aeromotive bypass reg. with -10 return line
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 16th 2009, 12:21 pm

all junk wrote:850 blow thru comp cams 256/262 @.050 12 gallon cell -10 feed -10 return -8 vent aeromotive part #027-12304 filter with 100 micron stainless filter filter rated from 200-1000 h.p. fuel pump ia part # 027-11104 aeromotive eliminator pump up tp 1100 h.p. forced induction 800 + lbs. per hour universal reg. part #027-13301 with pressure set at 9 psi. at idle -10 all the way to reg. -6 from reg. to carb.was told by kevin at csu carbs ? that fuel system was more than enough but he just did not care for the barry grant carb. i was told it wood work you just had to get it rich as hell to start and come back from there the 102-104 jets are still not rich just on motor with those jets car ran 6.46 w/141 60 ft. @109 mph.best et to date on motor with 84/95 jets car ran 6.52 144/60 ft. at 107 mph.and 34 degrees timing on motor plugs are a sandy color all the way up the porcelaim inside the threads no head work only thing done to them was purchased bare and assembled with 2.250/1.880 stainless valves.

Is it a down leg or an annular 850? Have you done anything with the high speed air bleeds yet. The system should be adequate but I do see one thing that should be changed and that is the feed to the pump should be larger then the line forward.

Just to rule it out lets do a volume test. Pull both lines off the carb and put them into a 1 gallon metal gas can and turn the pump on. You should be able to fill that gallon in 18-22 seconds if everything is doing its job on the fuel side.

You mentioned you are boost referencing the regulator but are you pulling any timing out with boost with like a 6btm or similar?

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 2:49 pm

annular nothing with air bleeds it fills a gallon jug up in 16 sec. +/- aeromotive said -10 all the way to the reg. timing is locked not pulling any out procharger said until the car goes down the track take as much timing out as possible and lock it to save from really hurting the motor once it makes on a full pass then start to play with timing i can try a -12 to the pump but the pump is only 12 inches from the cell if you think that -12 will help for that 12 in. ill put it on there i have spoke with barry grant and already done the gallon jug thing they say my fuel system is no where big enough for what i am tryin to do
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 16th 2009, 3:20 pm

all junk wrote:annular nothing with air bleeds it fills a gallon jug up in 16 sec. +/- aeromotive said -10 all the way to the reg. timing is locked not pulling any out procharger said until the car goes down the track take as much timing out as possible and lock it to save from really hurting the motor once it makes on a full pass then start to play with timing i can try a -12 to the pump but the pump is only 12 inches from the cell if you think that -12 will help for that 12 in. ill put it on there i have spoke with barry grant and already done the gallon jug thing they say my fuel system is no where big enough for what i am tryin to do

That pump is only rated to 750 hp so not sure what kind of hp numbers you are expecting but I would think that big of a motor at 10 lbs of boost should still make way north of that?

In regards to the timing if I read correct then it is locked at 34 degrees with no retard whatsover at this point? If that is the case I don't feel that is going to work and could definitely burn up some parts at 10 lbs of boost.

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 4:36 pm

jegs book says 1100 hp forced induction timing when procharger is hooked up is locked at 24 degrees pump is part#027-11104 eliminator states 1100 hp forced induction and 1600 normally aspirated are you looking at the same thing i am
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 16th 2009, 4:52 pm

all junk wrote:jegs book says 1100 hp forced induction timing when procharger is hooked up is locked at 24 degrees pump is part#027-11104 eliminator states 1100 hp forced induction and 1600 normally aspirated are you looking at the same thing i am

We were not. Sorry for that as I had 2 different threads going this morning and the other guy was using their 275 pump which is where the 750 number came from. It does look like that pump comes with a -12 an inlet on it though so changing the feed may still need to be done. What we have seen on the higher volume pumps if you try to run the same size feed as you do to the regulator it can cuase cavitation at the pump which will cause loss of volume during a pass.

Ruling out the fuel supply or just setting it aside for now I think the next step is that you will need to shrink the high speed air bleeds by 6 to 8 thousands and lets see what kind of results that nets.

In regards to the carburetor itself I also want to have you pull the needle and seats and make sure they have a .130 stamped on them and when you have the power valve out was it more of a gold color all over then the normal silver ones you are used to seeing?

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 5:18 pm

well the 9psi i think is to high and the o2 in the header is not good it should be in the down tube about 12" from the turbo the 1.1 is good. Have you had the motor dyno or on a chassis dyno i didnt see the hp you are after any thing at the 1000hp level you are going to need twin needle seats. let me read over the post again and see if i missed some thing.
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 5:30 pm

im not looking for 1200hp just wanna go fast with what i have hoping to run 5.50-5.570 in the 1/8 dyno next weekend already scheduled it wood like to see around 750 or to the tires
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 5:32 pm

that pump i would only push it to the 850 900 hp level safty facter. You said that the o2 is reading .96 and them 1.xx i dont know what set up you are using so that dont tell me anything if you can tell me is it 12.1 to 14.1 ect at wot and then at ide... you can get them to work but not my first carb i would have gone with.
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 5:37 pm

i no but ran out of money im doing afr ol school o2 in headers with volt meter in car with buddy holding meter on wires i was told if your .98 or higher your plenty rich
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 5:38 pm

130 needle and seat i will change to a -12 from cell to pump what about hi speed air bleeds? and power valve is gold but cant read whats on it tho
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 5:50 pm

OK so let me see if i have this right any thing over .96 is rich so at wot it is 1.xx I dont do the hole elect thing not my walk in the parrk does that mean it is real rich or real lean? 21psi at wot on 12psi of boost is a lot with that big of jets that thing sould be pig rich.
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 5:52 pm

do you have any pics of you set up carb hat o2 set up like i said it in the header is not a good spot to have it you want it moer in the down tude about 12" from the turbo.
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 16th 2009, 5:57 pm

all junk wrote:130 needle and seat i will change to a -12 from cell to pump what about hi speed air bleeds? and power valve is gold but cant read whats on it tho
PV would be a 6.5 but just wanted to make sure it had the gold hi-flow one in it. High speeds should be around .029 right now so prob start them off at .023. One question and I dont remember seeing it but what do the plugs look like both the ground strap and the center?

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 6:04 pm

all junk wrote:850 blow thru comp cams 256/262 @.050 12 gallon cell -10 feed -10 return -8 vent aeromotive part #027-12304 filter with 100 micron stainless filter filter rated from 200-1000 h.p. fuel pump ia part # 027-11104 aeromotive eliminator pump up tp 1100 h.p. forced induction 800 + lbs. per hour universal reg. part #027-13301 with pressure set at 9 psi. at idle -10 all the way to reg. -6 from reg. to carb.was told by kevin at csu carbs ? that fuel system was more than enough but he just did not care for the barry grant carb. i was told it wood work you just had to get it rich as hell to start and come back from there the 102-104 jets are still not rich just on motor with those jets car ran 6.46 w/141 60 ft. @109 mph.best et to date on motor with 84/95 jets car ran 6.52 144/60 ft. at 107 mph.and 34 degrees timing on motor plugs are a sandy color all the way up the porcelaim inside the threads no head work only thing done to them was purchased bare and assembled with 2.250/1.880 stainless valves.
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Northwest outlaw on September 16th 2009, 6:05 pm

but i dont know when he puled the plugs atfer a wot pull or not?
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 16th 2009, 6:07 pm

all junk wrote: the 102-104 jets are still not rich just on motor with those jets car ran 6.46 w/141 60 ft. @109 mph.best et to date on motor with 84/95 jets car ran 6.52 144/60 ft. at 107 mph. .

This part doesn't make much sense either as with this much jet on motor only and proper fuel supply I agree with the other poster this thing should be so rich it would be blowing fuel out the headers. Something doesn't add up here.... Did I read it right? Is it possible that it is too rich and you are seeing unburned fuel in the header?

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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 6:10 pm

im sorry its a f-1 procharger with the hat from procharger iwas told the hat is no good and its still not rich on just the motor with those jets in it car has run its best et with those jets at 9 psi fuel pressure just on motor alone thats y i am asking what do i need to do to make it rich i am really lost here lol
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  all junk on September 16th 2009, 6:12 pm

thats what i dont understand no gas smoke and you cant smell gas the whole end of the plug and strap are a sandy tan color
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Re: New Carb Help

Post  Tech @ BG on September 16th 2009, 6:14 pm

all junk wrote:thats what i dont understand no gas smoke and you cant smell gas the whole end of the plug and strap are a sandy tan color
There should be a heat discoloration line on the ground strap or at the threads. Any way of posting a pic of the plugs? The other problem is if it was not clicked off at the end of th pass and it was driven back or ran since it will mask what was really going on. Any way of finding what actually happened with the plugs?

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