500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

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500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  studly on January 12th 2012, 12:19 am

Alright whats the max flow you have gotten out of Trick Flow A460 head ? Who has the best program for them, My father has a set on his 638, and i need somebody to help this set out. already has Tit valves, have to check the sizes. but who is the best to do the heads and a single dominator cast intake.

how much Bling bling is this going to take to make these heads preform on this motor. right now it made about 1060hp and over 900torque max rpm right now is 7800rpms would like to open the power range up some. looking to go up to about 1200 hp can it be done?


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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  c.evans on January 12th 2012, 12:25 am

Studly,

We're right in there with a CNC porting program and then additional hand work clean-up for intake flow of 470+ cfm. A couple of varibles are; intake valve size and the valve seat angle.(i.e. 45*, 50*. 52*, 55*).

On the exhaust we're always around 325 cfm without a test pipe. Pipe numbers will be 25 to 30 cfm more.

Hope this helps,
Charlie


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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  studly on January 12th 2012, 12:41 am

I will check on the valve sizes he has this motor has been together for about 2 years but only has probably 15 passes on it. how much to CNC the head and some hand work to help smooth out the edges. this is a NA motor about 15.1 compression Eliminator block, scat billet crank, and MGP rods with Ross pistons and Hellfire rings. it has a quick fuel 1450 single carb. I think the intake needs some serious work also. thanks for the reply
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  rmcomprandy on January 12th 2012, 1:03 am

Replace all the seats, use a 2.425" intake and 1.840" exhaust valves with 50 degree seats and a good "A" head WILL provide over 500 cfm intake air flow; (been there).
All the work required will usually cost as much or more than a better head to begin with. However, there are sometimes class rules which make it necessary to use an "A" head ... you then need to do whatever you have to do in those cases.

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  bruno on January 12th 2012, 2:31 am

What about angle milling the cylinder heads for increasing flow
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  rmcomprandy on January 12th 2012, 5:41 pm

bruno wrote:What about angle milling the cylinder heads for increasing flow

Angle milling doesn't add much to the airflow however, it does lessen the chamber cc's the most with the least amount of metal removed.

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  BOSS 429 on January 12th 2012, 6:48 pm

studly wrote:Alright whats the max flow you have gotten out of Trick Flow A460 head ? Who has the best program for them, My father has a set on his 638, and i need somebody to help this set out. already has Tit valves, have to check the sizes. but who is the best to do the heads and a single dominator cast intake.

how much Bling bling is this going to take to make these heads preform on this motor. right now it made about 1060hp and over 900torque max rpm right now is 7800rpms would like to open the power range up some. looking to go up to about 1200 hp can it be done?


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why not put a better head on it,and intake
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  dfree383 on January 12th 2012, 6:58 pm

I agree with Rich, why not just step up to some C460's or Profilers.

Phllip did 1200 with a single 4 with C460 heads on a 645" motor.

Sell the A460 stuff and step up.
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  cool40 on January 12th 2012, 11:11 pm

dfree383 wrote:I agree with Rich, why not just step up to some C460's or Profilers.

Phllip did 1200 with a single 4 with C460 heads on a 645" motor.

Sell the A460 stuff and step up.
i'm with yall too,but he does have all the A460 stuff.......and pistons.
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  dfree383 on January 12th 2012, 11:20 pm

cool40 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:I agree with Rich, why not just step up to some C460's or Profilers.

Phllip did 1200 with a single 4 with C460 heads on a 645" motor.

Sell the A460 stuff and step up.
i'm with yall too,but he does have all the A460 stuff.......and pistons.

He also wants 1200hp.......
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  BOSS 429 on January 12th 2012, 11:23 pm

studly wrote:Alright whats the max flow you have gotten out of Trick Flow A460 head ? Who has the best program for them, My father has a set on his 638, and i need somebody to help this set out. already has Tit valves, have to check the sizes. but who is the best to do the heads and a single dominator cast intake.

how much Bling bling is this going to take to make these heads preform on this motor. right now it made about 1060hp and over 900torque max rpm right now is 7800rpms would like to open the power range up some. looking to go up to about 1200 hp can it be done?


Charlie / Lem

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it will need a cam change also ,once the heads get better
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  cool40 on January 12th 2012, 11:25 pm

dfree383 wrote:
cool40 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:I agree with Rich, why not just step up to some C460's or Profilers.

Phllip did 1200 with a single 4 with C460 heads on a 645" motor.

Sell the A460 stuff and step up.
i'm with yall too,but he does have all the A460 stuff.......and pistons.

He also wants 1200hp.......
is that all? Very Happy
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  LivermoreDave on January 13th 2012, 12:03 am


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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  cool40 on January 13th 2012, 12:25 am

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  dfree383 on January 13th 2012, 9:05 am


#1 he asked about his existing TFS castings and 1200hp - current best seen on here is 1123 with a single 4 with the TFS heads, Not a bunch of the other modern A's that people are sharing dyno info on.

#2 To go with those A460 (They are damn Nice Stuff and I like them too) it is expensive over reusing his current A's, for the $$ might as well step up to C460 (They will do well over 511 cfm nowdays) or Profiler A205 (The will get you well over 550 cfm)

#3 Other things to consider, Valve train Life and additional requirements trying to get the A460 heads to 1200hp, the bigger heads (C460 & A205's)should get their with a smaller cam. You don't need 1" + lift with the higher flowing heads to reach the desired number.
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  studly on January 13th 2012, 11:19 am

The A460 is what he currently has he does not want to replace, heads, pistons, and headers. the motor is not running what is should i am going to try to help him some this year the last 2 years i have been running small tire races and have not been able to help him, sine money is low this year i probbaly will have more time to go with him he is trying to run a 4.90 index class. I am putting some gear in the car to let the RPMS come up and try a couple converters and probbaly pull the intake and at least try to see what he has and if a blend an polish will help.


The heads already have a ton of money in them T&D Shaft stands welded, titanium intake and exhaust valves, titanium retainers, PAC triple springs, The cam is in the 880-890 range on lift already. I thought this motor at 638 cubic inches should have made in the 1150-1200hp range easily.guess i was wrong.

thanks for all the comments and suggestions keep them coming
Stan
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  rmcomprandy on January 13th 2012, 11:24 am


A price of $4,295.00 for those heads is a good price. Especially since ALL the supporting stuff on the engine to be able to use an "A" style head would still be usable.
Of course you would probably also want titanium intake valves at the least.

That is essentially what would need to be done to a TFS heads to get the flow numbers you want.

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on January 13th 2012, 4:10 pm

studly wrote:The A460 is what he currently has he does not want to replace, heads, pistons, and headers. the motor is not running what is should i am going to try to help him some this year the last 2 years i have been running small tire races and have not been able to help him, sine money is low this year i probbaly will have more time to go with him he is trying to run a 4.90 index class. I am putting some gear in the car to let the RPMS come up and try a couple converters and probbaly pull the intake and at least try to see what he has and if a blend an polish will help.


The heads already have a ton of money in them T&D Shaft stands welded, titanium intake and exhaust valves, titanium retainers, PAC triple springs, The cam is in the 880-890 range on lift already. I thought this motor at 638 cubic inches should have made in the 1150-1200hp range easily.guess i was wrong.

thanks for all the comments and suggestions keep them coming
Stan

Mike Stevens' 615" made 1,123 HP & 931 lbs. ft. tq. with an aluminium block and 1x4 carb. Getting to the other side of 1,150 HP with a iron blocked 638" should be doable.

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  cool40 on January 13th 2012, 11:24 pm

dfree383 wrote:

#1 he asked about his existing TFS castings and 1200hp - current best seen on here is 1123 with a single 4 with the TFS heads, Not a bunch of the other modern A's that people are sharing dyno info on.

#2 To go with those A460 (They are damn Nice Stuff and I like them too) it is expensive over reusing his current A's, for the $$ might as well step up to C460 (They will do well over 511 cfm nowdays) or Profiler A205 (The will get you well over 550 cfm)

#3 Other things to consider, Valve train Life and additional requirements trying to get the A460 heads to 1200hp, the bigger heads (C460 & A205's)should get their with a smaller cam. You don't need 1" + lift with the higher flowing heads to reach the desired number.
i read the question and give my answer for a 500cfm A460 head,which is the topic here. Rolling Eyes
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  Barney on January 13th 2012, 11:30 pm

Gotta pay if you wanna play unfortunately.
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on January 21st 2012, 9:11 pm

It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  jasonf on January 21st 2012, 10:31 pm

Lem Evans wrote:It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

That's funny you mention that Lem because Darin Morgan talked about that at the tech seminar. Increasing valve size (for eg.) and increasing flow but losing 40+ hspr on the dyno. I'm sure the smart guys were up to speed with what he was talking about but I was still about 3 slides behind. Shocked lol!
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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  rmcomprandy on January 22nd 2012, 1:06 am

jasonf wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

That's funny you mention that Lem because Darin Morgan talked about that at the tech seminar. Increasing valve size (for eg.) and increasing flow but losing 40+ hspr on the dyno. I'm sure the smart guys were up to speed with what he was talking about but I was still about 3 slides behind. Shocked lol!

It's true but, the buying public is enamored with air flow numbers and to hell with what is really important. Educating them at this point is almost impossible. THAT, and a few other things, is why some that know will ALWAYS be faster than others. Wink

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Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

Post  c.evans on January 22nd 2012, 2:45 am

jasonf wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

That's funny you mention that Lem because Darin Morgan talked about that at the tech seminar. Increasing valve size (for eg.) and increasing flow but losing 40+ hspr on the dyno. I'm sure the smart guys were up to speed with what he was talking about but I was still about 3 slides behind. Shocked lol!

Glad you caught that Jason. Darin was talking about valve efficiency. He was saying that you can put too big of an intake valve in a cylinder head. Specifically he said that while a 2.500" valve might show more air flow on the flow bench than a 2.450" valve,,,,if it is not flowing as much in terms of cfm per square inch of area as the 2.450" valve, then the valve is less efficient and that's where they saw the 40 horsepower loss on the dyno.

Because I port and flow test cylinder heads, I get frequent phone calls from potential customers wanting to know about putting in bigger valves. They have listened to some Joe Blow someplace that has said they can put a bigger valve in a particular Ford cylinder head. Our traditional American mindset is that bigger is better, however in the case of valves, that's not always true. I try to get the caller to change his thinking about the matter, but many times it's a losing battle.

Charlie


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Package

Post  Mark Laczo on January 22nd 2012, 9:33 am

Lem Evans wrote:It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

Thats what I'm shooting for with my 486 cfm C's, a good overall package. Cool


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