Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  BOSS 429 on February 17th 2012, 12:50 pm

bt head is a very good head ,are they legal?
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  bruno on February 17th 2012, 1:00 pm

Lem Evans wrote:With a true 4150 carb, 900 hp will not be easy at or under 557".

thats the part i missed .......
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Gary Blair on February 17th 2012, 1:08 pm

bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  cletus66 on February 17th 2012, 3:43 pm

Gary Blair wrote:
bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,




Gary, what do you mean by "the turn knocked down converted to a P-51" ? I have a set of SCJ's and have not heard about this. Thanks. Cool
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  IDT-572 on February 17th 2012, 5:16 pm

Not Gary, but the Kasse head is a max ported version of his SCJ head with a deeper bowl and slight movement of the valve and stud.

Material was added in areas that allow more aggressive porting in areas that the SCJ would cut through.

The SCJ has great mid flow and holds on up to higher valve lifts with out falling off to bad. A design Jon incorporated into his new head. laying back of the short side along with a bunch of porting will pick the high lift flow up on the SCJ to the out of the box flow numbers of the P-51 but some of the low numbers will be lost.

The P-51 head will have the peak numbers of the max ported SCJ, but still at .600 lift. Add a 2.300 valve and those .600 numbers will get close too 430 cfm with the right valve job and chamber work.

I have not tried to carry a set of SCJ's to that point , but my gut feeling is it won't happen and still have the lower mid lift flow of a P-51.

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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  c.evans on February 17th 2012, 7:40 pm

cletus66,

Don't try it or you will hit water. I was at Kaase's shop when they were working on the prototype P-51 heads. I saw a set of SCJ heads that was their "starting point". On the short side of the SCJ heads, they had broken through to water on all 8 intake ports,,,, and Jon and I discussed the problem. Likewise, I learned years ago from Ted Fisher at Engine Systems, that you can NOT get too agressive on the short side radius of Blue Thunder heads, or you'll hit water.

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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  darren on February 17th 2012, 8:03 pm

I have a set of scj's on my 557ci,
I sent mine out to be ported and flowed and they came back with inlet 420 cfm @.700" ,inlet dropped down to 417cfm at .750"
ex 269 cfm @.750"
my cam has .679" & .690" lift .
Not sure what hp I have, i'm still building my truck around my engine.
Darren.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Lem Evans on February 17th 2012, 9:08 pm

Gary Blair wrote:
bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,

Gary, you are incorrect about Nick's comp ratio and you way off on the cam timing.

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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Barney on February 17th 2012, 10:10 pm

I thought Nick already had a max effort, high dollar, show stopping 10.5 bad ass mobile....
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Lem Evans on February 17th 2012, 10:11 pm

Barney wrote:I thought Nick already had a max effort, high dollar, show stopping 10.5 bad ass mobile....

I can not control what you think Wink

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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Barney on February 17th 2012, 10:35 pm

Haven't you heard Bruno's coming to Tennessee and gonna show us all how it's done. I'm quaking in my perverbial boots.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  bruno on February 17th 2012, 10:44 pm

Barney wrote:Haven't you heard Bruno's coming to Tennessee and gonna show us all how it's done. I'm quaking in my perverbial boots.

easy on the pain killers ...... lol
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Barney on February 17th 2012, 10:46 pm

I'm putting a 10.5 tire on my purple people pleaser and gonna do smoke shows the whole track. I'm gonna drive that sum b$&tch every which way but straight...
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Barney on February 17th 2012, 10:48 pm

bruno wrote:
Barney wrote:Haven't you heard Bruno's coming to Tennessee and gonna show us all how it's done. I'm quaking in my perverbial boots.

easy on the pain killers ...... lol
Leg hurts more today, but I still made it to the gym, and been lighter on the Norco, defies logic, but I'm not the smartest monkey in the tree.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  DILLIGASDAVE on February 17th 2012, 11:21 pm

Barney wrote:........and been lighter on the Norco, defies logic.............
Don't go too crazy with the Norco (hydrocodone). All that acetaminophen (Tylenol) they contain ain't the best thing for the liver.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Barney on February 17th 2012, 11:23 pm

I've only taken 2 today(trying to just deal with the pain). Also taking ibuprofen for the swelling.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  cletus66 on February 17th 2012, 11:32 pm

Thanks Blake and Charlie. Cool
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Barney on February 17th 2012, 11:47 pm

c.evans wrote:cletus66,

Don't try it or you will hit water. I was at Kaase's shop when they were working on the prototype P-51 heads. I saw a set of SCJ heads that was their "starting point". On the short side of the SCJ heads, they had broken through to water on all 8 intake ports,,,, and Jon and I discussed the problem. Likewise, I learned years ago from Ted Fisher at Engine Systems, that you can NOT get too agressive on the short side radius of Blue Thunder heads, or you'll hit water.
To get back on track...your correct about the short turn on the Blue Thunder. I like the blue thunder head though and have found its a good head and the general shape is good and although it has some shortcomings works really well with just a little bit of work.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  BOSS 429 on February 18th 2012, 1:39 am

cletus66 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,




Gary, what do you mean by "the turn knocked down converted to a P-51" ? I have a set of SCJ's and have not heard about this. Thanks. Cool



welding is required to do this ,and it makes it better
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  BOSS 429 on February 18th 2012, 1:44 am

[quote="Lem Evans"]
Gary Blair wrote:
bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,

Gary, you are incorrect about Nick's comp ratio and you way off on the cam timing.







--------

I READ that very ( gary guessing?) different, as in hes saying if he had 15.5 to 1,and a cam like that he make more power.as in 900 range?
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Gary Blair on February 18th 2012, 10:32 am

cletus66 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,




Gary, what do you mean by "the turn knocked down converted to a P-51" ? I have a set of SCJ's and have not heard about this. Thanks. Cool

The best way to to this is open up the deck (head gasket side) just under the short turn and weld this area. You will need to resurface the head as well. THis will allow you to lower the short turn and shape it like a P-51. The SCJ won't be exactly like a P-51 becasue it will not have a dual quench combustion chamber. I don't think it matters a bunch.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Gary Blair on February 18th 2012, 10:34 am

Lem Evans wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
bruno wrote:Shoot with the right cam and more compression im sure i can attain 900 plus with ease Wink

Nick,
I don't know a lot about your engine except that it is a 562 with Edelbrock heads. With what you have and a comp ratio of 15.5-1 and a camshaft somewhere near 290° int/ 304° @ .050 on a 115° CL with a net lift of about .850 you will be well north of 900 HP with your head or any of the CJ family of heads, A-429, Blue Thunder, P-51, SCJ with the turn knocked down converted to a P-51 etc.
Gary,

Gary, you are incorrect about Nick's comp ratio and you way off on the cam timing.

Lem,
I don't know the details of Nick's compression ratio or cam specs. I am offering a recomendation.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Lem Evans on February 18th 2012, 11:24 am

Yes Gary I know you were offering a recomedation but, that big duration at .050" stuff like we ran back in the late 1980's has been displaced by the newer designs with much more area under the curve. Here is an example:
288* @ .050" / 203* @ .200" an intake lobe myself and others ran way back when.
284* @ .050" / 210* @ .200" """"""""""""""""" of current design.
As you can see the new stuff with 4* less @ .050" is 7* bigger at .200".....makes more power and a ton more tq.

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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  Gary Blair on February 18th 2012, 12:33 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Yes Gary I know you were offering a recomedation but, that big duration at .050" stuff like we ran back in the late 1980's has been displaced by the newer designs with much more area under the curve. Here is an example:
288* @ .050" / 203* @ .200" an intake lobe myself and others ran way back when.
284* @ .050" / 210* @ .200" """"""""""""""""" of current design.
As you can see the new stuff with 4* less @ .050" is 7* bigger at .200".....makes more power and a ton more tq.

I understand what you are saying. I have some new profiles like that myself. Wink Brookshire was always adamant with me on that very aspect of not only the intake lobe but the exhaust as well. When I first met him back in the 1970's he talked about the .200 lift numbers and how important they were.
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Re: Max HP and Lift With SCJ Heads

Post  c.evans on February 18th 2012, 3:07 pm

Guys,

I get a lot of cylinder head repair jobs in here. From what I have seen in terms of real world experience, I would not advocate anyone running an Edelbrock Performer 429-460 CJ style head at 15.5:1 compression. It will never hold the head gasket. The head is too much of a lightweight head.

For that kind of compression, I am a strong supported of the bigger and stronger 18 bolt heads such as the TFS A-460, the FRPP C-460, or the Pro-Filer and Thor heads.

Charlie Evans

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