Crank?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 23rd 2012, 4:44 pm

Say u have a 460 crank that came out a 69/70 block.What is process you would have do to put in new engine. Eagle rods and speed pro pistons with standard valve layout for A-429,edel,tfs.
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  rmcomprandy on March 23rd 2012, 7:03 pm

bigjohn2007 wrote:Say u have a 460 crank that came out a 69/70 block.What is process you would have do to put in new engine. Eagle rods and speed pro pistons with standard valve layout for A-429,edel,tfs.

Cut down the oil slinger to only about .030" ... remove about an 1/8" from the counterweight outer diameter.
Of course; have it all balanced.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5143
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

View user profile http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  Mustang-junky on March 23rd 2012, 8:17 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
bigjohn2007 wrote:Say u have a 460 crank that came out a 69/70 block.What is process you would have do to put in new engine. Eagle rods and speed pro pistons with standard valve layout for A-429,edel,tfs.

Cut down the oil slinger to only about .030" ... remove about an 1/8" from the counterweight outer diameter.
Of course; have it all balanced.

Could you explain why these two things need to be done? Cut all the counter weights? I am taking my 460 stuff to get balanced next week. Thanks.

Jess
avatar
Mustang-junky

Posts : 422
Join date : 2011-12-04
Location : Central New York. The state, not the city.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  rmcomprandy on March 24th 2012, 12:28 am

Mustang-junky wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
bigjohn2007 wrote:Say u have a 460 crank that came out a 69/70 block.What is process you would have do to put in new engine. Eagle rods and speed pro pistons with standard valve layout for A-429,edel,tfs.

Cut down the oil slinger to only about .030" ... remove about an 1/8" from the counterweight outer diameter.
Of course; have it all balanced.

Could you explain why these two things need to be done? Cut all the counter weights? I am taking my 460 stuff to get balanced next week. Thanks.

Jess

First because you'll never even get it to sit in the main bearing saddles without the oil slinger hitting the block where the later blocks are not machined to accept a slinger. AND, after you cut down the slinger to fit into the block it won't turn because the counterweights will hit the block metal over the water jacket at bottom the bores where they are about .200" deeper into the crankcase.
The early crankshaft, (internal balance), counterweights are larger than those on a later crankshaft, (external balance).

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5143
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

View user profile http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 12:37 am

is this what u call turning it to say 10/10 or is that a whole new ball game?
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  138 on March 24th 2012, 12:40 am

step one....what block do you have?

138

Posts : 1593
Join date : 2009-08-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 12:43 am

138 wrote:step one....what block do you have?
69/70
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  138 on March 24th 2012, 12:45 am

than im guessing all that means nothing to you then....

138

Posts : 1593
Join date : 2009-08-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 12:51 am

DIVE 6015-A2B went looked
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  138 on March 24th 2012, 12:55 am

randy will post back and give you the true skinny...I am assuming you mean crank prep. he was discussing an internal balance being put in a block designed for an external balance application from the factory...ie: "later" blocks.


Last edited by 138 on March 24th 2012, 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total

138

Posts : 1593
Join date : 2009-08-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 12:59 am

138 wrote:randy will post back and give you the true skinny...I am assuming you me crank prep. he was discussing an internal balance being put in a block designed for an external balance application from the factory...ie: "later" blocks.
thanks
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  466cj on March 24th 2012, 1:07 am

That crank will drop right into your D1VE block. It will not drop into a D9TE block without modification as Randy outlined.

10/10 refers to the main and rod journals being machined .010" undersize. A 10/20 would be .010" undersize on the mains, and .020" on the rods.

466cj

Posts : 391
Join date : 2011-05-01
Location : San Antonio, TX.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 1:15 am

466cj wrote:That crank will drop right into your D1VE block. It will not drop into a D9TE block without modification as Randy outlined.

10/10 refers to the main and rod journals being machined .010" undersize. A 10/20 would be .010" undersize on the mains, and .020" on the rods.
so it put on a machine and metal is remove from each journal mains and rods.Is this something that aways has to be done? [This part i do not understand]
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  darren on March 24th 2012, 1:52 am

is this what you mean by the oil slinger ,this extra piece on the front of the 429 crank
avatar
darren

Posts : 63
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  466cj on March 24th 2012, 4:38 am

bigjohn2007 wrote:
466cj wrote:That crank will drop right into your D1VE block. It will not drop into a D9TE block without modification as Randy outlined.

10/10 refers to the main and rod journals being machined .010" undersize. A 10/20 would be .010" undersize on the mains, and .020" on the rods.
so it put on a machine and metal is remove from each journal mains and rods.Is this something that aways has to be done? [This part i do not understand]

No, if the journals are in spec. and look good then they can just be polished. Many times the journals are worn meaning you will have too much clearance, or the surface is scratched up from debis, or the journal is tapered, etc... in these cases having the journal ground undersize is a way to save the crank.

Normally it is determined how much has to be taken off of the worse journal and all the journals are ground to that size. So if you have to go .020" to get the worst main journal cleaned up, all the mains will be to that size. The reason for this is because you normally buy a set of main or rod bearings in a complete set, all being of the same size. Now if the mains need to be ground, but the rods are good, then only the mains would be ground undersize since you buy your rod and main bearing sets separately.

How much you can undersize the mains or rods is determined by the available undersized bearing sizes.

466cj

Posts : 391
Join date : 2011-05-01
Location : San Antonio, TX.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 1:31 pm

Thanks very good info.Now say i carry crank and it has be turn 10/10 would this change the size of the rod end or just bearing size.Is there two different rod end sizes i know the length is 6.605 ?
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  rmcomprandy on March 24th 2012, 2:09 pm

bigjohn2007 wrote:DIVE 6015-A2B went looked

That is not considered the "newer" block. With that block, you won't have a problem.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5143
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

View user profile http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  the Coug on March 24th 2012, 2:14 pm

John let me say this if you have no Idea what is going on I suggest you get someone that does to build an engine for you....You seem lost as a blind child in the Black forest...

Please don't take that wrong or you need to get a book explaining the basics of engine building......
avatar
the Coug

Posts : 3055
Join date : 2008-12-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 2:32 pm

the Coug wrote:John let me say this if you have no Idea what is going on I suggest you get someone that does to build an engine for you....You seem lost as a blind child in the Black forest...

Please don't take that wrong or you need to get a book explaining the basics of engine building......
True i am blind but i have will to learn and right ask ? and as far as i know that what the site for.I have had many engine built but i have always wanted try myself.
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  richter69 on March 24th 2012, 2:34 pm

nuthin wrong with askin questions and trying to learn, honestly thats the true meaning and purpose of this place.
avatar
richter69

Posts : 13645
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 47
Location : In the winners circle

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  the Coug on March 24th 2012, 2:54 pm

John Please don't take it wrong I envy you wanting to learn and try.... Remember check it, recheck it and recheck it again. get you a good set of Mic's and dial calipers and learn how to read them accurately..... and use them. when you measure something write the reading down and then you have it but make sure you check it several times to make sure....Clearances are critical on these engines.... you can't just throw them together and expect them to last..... they will hang a rod out the south side.....
avatar
the Coug

Posts : 3055
Join date : 2008-12-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 24th 2012, 3:00 pm

the Coug wrote:John Please don't take it wrong I envy you wanting to learn and try.... Remember check it, recheck it and recheck it again. get you a good set of Mic's and dial calipers and learn how to read them accurately..... and use them. when you measure something write the reading down and then you have it but make sure you check it several times to make sure....Clearances are critical on these engines.... you can't just throw them together and expect them to last..... they will hang a rod out the south side.....
np now back to ?
avatar
bigjohn2007
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 790
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 39
Location : Cerro Gordo n.c

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  138 on March 24th 2012, 3:10 pm

actualy this site needs a little action. dont hesitate to ask all the questions you may have whether they seem dumb or not. books are a great source of knowledge as well. you will learn things you would have ever known to ask about.

138

Posts : 1593
Join date : 2009-08-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  138 on March 24th 2012, 3:14 pm

summit sells these as well....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0895860708

138

Posts : 1593
Join date : 2009-08-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Crank?

Post  466cj on March 24th 2012, 5:22 pm

bigjohn2007 wrote:Thanks very good info.Now say i carry crank and it has be turn 10/10 would this change the size of the rod end or just bearing size.Is there two different rod end sizes i know the length is 6.605 ?

The thickness of the bearing changes. All car and light truck 429 or 460 Ford's use a 6.605" rods. Now some of the Boss 429's had a different length rod, but doubt you will be running into one of those. There is also a HD429 put in bigger trucks that has a different rod lenght.

Now you should get the rods and mains housing bores checked. The housing bore needs to be round and there needs to be a certain amount of "crush" when the bearing is installed into them. Basically the rod and main id is slightly smaller than the bearing OD so it is properly retained.

You need to measure the clearance between the od of the journal id of the bearing with it installed in its rod or main with the bolts torqued down. That clearance has to be right, too small and you can spin a bearing wrecking the engine, too loose and you will have low oil pressure and/or a knocking sould (bearing knock).
If the clearance is wrong, either a different bearing or polishing the crank, or adjusting the "crush" (reducing housing bore if less clearance is needed) are ways to get it right. Other than a different bearing, the others require equipment and skill normally found at a machine shop.

466cj

Posts : 391
Join date : 2011-05-01
Location : San Antonio, TX.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum