Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 22nd 2012, 4:54 pm

Your comparison was to stock OEM Ford iron heads ... now you change the rules to suit your argument.

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.


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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  dfree383 on May 22nd 2012, 10:58 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:Your comparison was to stock OEM Ford iron heads ... now you change the rules to suit your argument.

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.

The question was how much more power will SCJs or TFS streets get you over PC's or bowl blended PI's or for that matter a set of worked DOVE's..
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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 22nd 2012, 11:59 pm

dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.

The question was how much more power will SCJs or TFS streets get you over PC's or bowl blended PI's or for that matter a set of worked DOVE's..

That would depend greatly upon the rest of the build ... a 100 horsepower more with SCJ's isn't out of the question with a bigger cam and engine like 501/521 or so.
Comparably prepped un-ported TFS streets aren't even close to that.

For all out power ... considering what they cost, the SCJ's are the best deal in the universe; they simply need corresponding parts.

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  dfree383 on May 23rd 2012, 12:08 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.

The question was how much more power will SCJs or TFS streets get you over PC's or bowl blended PI's or for that matter a set of worked DOVE's..

That would depend greatly upon the rest of the build ... a 100 horsepower more with SCJ's isn't out of the question with a bigger cam and engine like 501/521 or so.
Comparably prepped un-ported TFS streets aren't even close to that.

OK, So if one where to lay it out...... Apples to Apples....... Using all Equal Parts and Displacement......... Using Procomps One Could build a Procomp Headed 500hp motor for $X,XXX.XX and a 600hp SCJ headed motor for about......... $600 more? $800 more? What do you think?




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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  bbf-falcon on May 23rd 2012, 12:15 am

For the sake of arguing,the thing is the PC's are what he has and what he is stuck with for now. So lets help him w/what he has. Smile

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 23rd 2012, 12:17 am

dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.

The question was how much more power will SCJs or TFS streets get you over PC's or bowl blended PI's or for that matter a set of worked DOVE's..

That would depend greatly upon the rest of the build ... a 100 horsepower more with SCJ's isn't out of the question with a bigger cam and engine like 501/521 or so.
Comparably prepped un-ported TFS streets aren't even close to that.

OK, So if one where to lay it out...... Apples to Apples....... Using all Equal Parts and Displacement......... Using Procomps One Could build a Procomp Headed 500hp motor for $X,XXX.XX and a 600hp SCJ headed motor for about......... $600 more? $800 more? What do you think?



"Apples to Apples' ... if you build a mild 466 with OEM type short block, a little cam and street type carb the SCJ's won't be but about 25 more horsepower and cost about $1,000.00 more to build unless you get pushrods and pistons for free.

That's the point ... each has a different type build to take advantage of what each will provide.

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 23rd 2012, 12:27 am

bbf-falcon wrote:For the sake of arguing,the thing is the PC's are what he has and what he is stuck with for now. So lets help him w/what he has. Smile

Rick ... what he has is not good for all out horsepower and it looks as though that engine is not a good candidate for Pro Comp heads but, as said ... that is what he has so, the rest of the combination should NOT be built as if there was some other heads being used.
Lathe cut a dish in his flat-top pistons is the best alternative.

Dave just has an inner NEED to bash the Pro Comp head for any reason he can visualize when actualities have proven different.
They simply have to be used within their spectrum to be worthwhile...

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  dfree383 on May 23rd 2012, 12:42 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.

The question was how much more power will SCJs or TFS streets get you over PC's or bowl blended PI's or for that matter a set of worked DOVE's..

That would depend greatly upon the rest of the build ... a 100 horsepower more with SCJ's isn't out of the question with a bigger cam and engine like 501/521 or so.
Comparably prepped un-ported TFS streets aren't even close to that.

OK, So if one where to lay it out...... Apples to Apples....... Using all Equal Parts and Displacement......... Using Procomps One Could build a Procomp Headed 500hp motor for $X,XXX.XX and a 600hp SCJ headed motor for about......... $600 more? $800 more? What do you think?



"Apples to Apples' ... if you build a mild 466 with OEM type short block, a little cam and street type carb the SCJ's won't be but about 25 more horsepower and cost about $1,000.00 more to build unless you get pushrods and pistons for free.

That's the point ... each has a different type build to take advantage of what each will provide.

OK so a low Down cheap build, kinda a 460 rering build..... The hp margin is different than a full build. Agreed.

I just did a search on Ebay for compairison..... Seems typical PC heads with "Quality Parts" seem to go for $1270-$1520, I'm not sure of the parts, but I'd assume they are compairable to the stuff you'd get with the Ford Racing head at about $1900 from a place like Summit?

The PC heads with the Chinese Parts seem to be in the $1000-$1100 Range.

Cost difference of the heads is $380 to $630 Using Quanity Valves, Springs and Parts on the PC's.

So we could expect 25HP +/- on a dirt cheap economy build (My guess is a little more) for in the $1000 Dollar Range because we need Pistons, Or we need to cut new Reliefs cut, A whole lot cheaper??? How Much about $150-$200?

Or if we where doing say a 521-557 Stroker, we'd probably see 100hp for $380-$630 additional dollars.......


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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 23rd 2012, 12:45 am

Also, if a lathe for pistons is not available, an .090" cut on the dome over half it's crown area will also get there; (similar to the "step-dish" KB pistons. That way the quench side of the piston will still be tall and the chamber side will be shorter and "down the hole".

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 23rd 2012, 12:53 am

dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:

For the dollar spent ... the Pro Comps CAN be a good deal.

The question was how much more power will SCJs or TFS streets get you over PC's or bowl blended PI's or for that matter a set of worked DOVE's..

That would depend greatly upon the rest of the build ... a 100 horsepower more with SCJ's isn't out of the question with a bigger cam and engine like 501/521 or so.
Comparably prepped un-ported TFS streets aren't even close to that.

OK, So if one where to lay it out...... Apples to Apples....... Using all Equal Parts and Displacement......... Using Procomps One Could build a Procomp Headed 500hp motor for $X,XXX.XX and a 600hp SCJ headed motor for about......... $600 more? $800 more? What do you think?



"Apples to Apples' ... if you build a mild 466 with OEM type short block, a little cam and street type carb the SCJ's won't be but about 25 more horsepower and cost about $1,000.00 more to build unless you get pushrods and pistons for free.

That's the point ... each has a different type build to take advantage of what each will provide.

OK so a low Down cheap build, kinda a 460 rering build..... The hp margin is different than a full build. Agreed.

I just did a search on Ebay for compairison..... Seems typical PC heads with "Quality Parts" seem to go for $1270-$1520, I'm not sure of the parts, but I'd assume they are compairable to the stuff you'd get with the Ford Racing head at about $1900 from a place like Summit?

The PC heads with the Chinese Parts seem to be in the $1000-$1100 Range.

Cost difference of the heads is $380 to $630 Using Quanity Valves, Springs and Parts on the PC's.

So we could expect 25HP +/- on a dirt cheap economy build (My guess is a little more) for in the $1000 Dollar Range because we need Pistons, Or we need to cut new Reliefs cut, A whole lot cheaper??? How Much about $150-$200?

Or if we where doing say a 521-557 Stroker, we'd probably see 100hp for $380-$630 additional dollars.......


YES ... but, I wouldn't recommend or try to sell someone a Pro Comp head for a large stroker engine unless it was a small camshaft, truck, towing type engine which takes advantage of the smaller ports and less air flow for more "down the highway" part throttle torque and mileage. THAT is NOT a down and dirty cheap build.
The cylinder head needs to be correct for that particular build. All builds are not about wide open throttle power and peak torque & horsepower numbers.


Last edited by rmcomprandy on May 23rd 2012, 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  dfree383 on May 23rd 2012, 12:53 am

rmcomprandy wrote:Also, if a lathe for pistons is not available, an .090" cut on the dome over half it's crown area will also get there; (similar to the "step-dish" KB pistons. That way the quench side of the piston will still be tall and the chamber side will be shorter and "down the hole".

Or just take the hit and dump the PC's or send them back.

Get a proper set of heads and the right pistons to start with.

Which one has the happier ending?
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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  outracn on May 25th 2012, 3:45 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:For the sake of arguing,the thing is the PC's are what he has and what he is stuck with for now. So lets help him w/what he has. Smile
hello can u help? seem really good bbf's which heads are better alum. scj's or p-51's also the 514 has scj on it now and was wondering if the pistons will work with p-51's thanx

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  466cj on May 25th 2012, 4:53 pm

outracn wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:For the sake of arguing,the thing is the PC's are what he has and what he is stuck with for now. So lets help him w/what he has. Smile
hello can u help? seem really good bbf's which heads are better alum. scj's or p-51's also the 514 has scj on it now and was wondering if the pistons will work with p-51's thanx

The OP has ProComp heads and had some questions so I'd think answering his questions would be of help to him. What head is better depends on application. The valve angles on the FRPP SCJ and P-51 are the same so the valve notches are in the same place on the pistons. Now if your pistons have a dome you may have an issue as the chamber shape is different, but other than that should not be an issue.

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  466cj on May 25th 2012, 4:57 pm

Victor L wrote:I might have dual valve reliefs machined into my pistons, so P51 heads could be an option in the future.
So is there a calculator, or a chart to help me figure the ratio?

Just be aware that the P-51 has a 72cc chamber where currently your Pro Comps are 93 cc. Putting P-51 heads on would net you a CR of 13.50 Shocked

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  Victor L on May 25th 2012, 9:35 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:Also, if a lathe for pistons is not available, an .090" cut on the dome over half it's crown area will also get there; (similar to the "step-dish" KB pistons. That way the quench side of the piston will still be tall and the chamber side will be shorter and "down the hole".
I believe my machinist/retired neighbor, was planning to cut the pistons in a lathe.
For the sake of conversation, and possible better options, how would I explain this type of cut to him.
The idea of using a dished piston made me wonder if quench would be compromised.

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  dfree383 on May 26th 2012, 12:20 am

My 2 Cents...... Use the SCJ Ford Heads and get some proper Probe Pistons. They are priced right and great quality for the money spent.
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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  466cj on May 26th 2012, 1:41 am

dfree383 wrote:My 2 Cents...... Use the SCJ Ford Heads and get some proper Probe Pistons. They are priced right and great quality for the money spent.

You just one of them there Pro Comp haters Suspect Laughing

X2 The FRPP SCJ heads and Probe pistons are a great way to go!

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  the Coug on May 26th 2012, 6:46 am

Victor L wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:Also, if a lathe for pistons is not available, an .090" cut on the dome over half it's crown area will also get there; (similar to the "step-dish" KB pistons. That way the quench side of the piston will still be tall and the chamber side will be shorter and "down the hole".
I believe my machinist/retired neighbor, was planning to cut the pistons in a lathe.
For the sake of conversation, and possible better options, how would I explain this type of cut to him.
The idea of using a dished piston made me wonder if quench would be compromised.



Several things I don't understand why you are doing... Why .040 over they are custom pistons and cost more, your neighbor is going to cut valve notches with a lathe>..............bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrong..... if he is going to cut them with a lathe you need a new machinest... and if you insist on running that junk do not expect over 400 hp.... and go get some KY jelly cuz you ae going to need it....
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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  rmcomprandy on May 26th 2012, 11:33 am

Victor L wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:Also, if a lathe for pistons is not available, an .090" cut on the dome over half it's crown area will also get there; (similar to the "step-dish" KB pistons. That way the quench side of the piston will still be tall and the chamber side will be shorter and "down the hole".
I believe my machinist/retired neighbor, was planning to cut the pistons in a lathe.
For the sake of conversation, and possible better options, how would I explain this type of cut to him.
The idea of using a dished piston made me wonder if quench would be compromised.

The photos in a KB catalog show the "step-dish" cut on MANY of their piston offerings.
I have their paper catalog but, maybe those photos are somewhere on their website as well;
www.KB-silvolite.com

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Re: Want flat tops for pump gas 523.

Post  Victor L on May 26th 2012, 12:44 pm

OK, the D Cup dish would be the other dish style.
Thanks again for the help.

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