Overheating Issue

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Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 14th 2012, 3:37 pm

Hey Guys,
Well, finally got the 460 running but ran into a problem almost right away. After about 1-2 minutes after the engine started it began to heat up quite quickly. I shut it down and checked everything out and all seemed fine so I let it cool down. The next day I went to take the radiator cap off to make sure there was still enough fluid and the cap blew off even though it was cold! It was like there was a ton of pressure in there.
I've read that too much back pressure along with overheating can be due to a blown head gasket. However, this motor is new. This was the first time it had been started since I got it back from the shop. Can head gaskets go out that quickly? Maybe it was installed incorrectly?
I went ahead and checked my oil for signs of coolant. Though it was not milky, it did seem thin. I checked the coolant for signs of oil but I couldn't tell.
Anyway, what do you guys think? Let me know what other information you need.
Thanks,
Keith

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  cturk1010 on May 14th 2012, 5:11 pm

sounds to me that you didnt get all the air out before you started the motor best way is to take the tstat out and fill radiator till you see water in the intake then put tstat in and put the hose back on and fill rest of the way up start motor with cap off the radiator till the tstate opens up and then you have all air out if you put cap on before starting for the first time air will still be in system and cause a vapor lock and overheat withing a few minutes

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 14th 2012, 5:17 pm

I'm actually not running a tstat, so can I still bleed the system by just taking the top hose off and looking for the coolant level down the tstat housing?
Also, is it possible to bleed the system simply by leaving the cap off for a bit?

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  cturk1010 on May 14th 2012, 5:59 pm

dont put the cap on till you rin the motor for a few minutes if it still does it then you may have some other isue like gaskets set on wrong

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 14th 2012, 6:25 pm

Okay, just finished up doing what you said. It boiled over around 180 degrees which only took about a minute for it to get that hot. It basically looked like I shook up a soda and opened it. Now, there is this weird white scum floating on top of the coolant in the radiator and when I stick my finger in it there is some black junk within the white scum.
What the heck happened???? Why is this happening on a brand new engine????
Thanks,
Keith

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  cturk1010 on May 14th 2012, 8:58 pm

wow that is not good it sounds to me like you have a leak in head gasket like they did not seal or were not cleaned right who did the work for you is who i would go to about this it sounds like they did something wrong

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  69F100 on May 14th 2012, 11:10 pm

They may have put the head gaskits on wrong they are a front and rear and if on wrong it will not let the water flow right and cause over heating like you have going on. I hate to be the one to tell you but it sounds like the heads need to come off and gaskits check to make sure they was on right.If the head gaskits was on right have the heads checked for cracks you may have a cracked head.
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 15th 2012, 9:56 am

Crap, that's exactly what I didn't want to hear. Man, it sucks that something so simple, if done wrong, can end up being so critical. The guys that did the job for me are a reputible shop too. Figures it would go sour on my job.
I really hope the head/s aren't cracked. The bottom and top end are brand new!
Anyway, thanks for the insight guys. I guess it was better it happened this way as opposed to me getting stuck somewhere on the road.
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  dfree383 on May 15th 2012, 10:04 am

Chech to make sure the timing is reasonable and the air fuel is decent too.... A real bad tune can cause overheating too......

Also it should run longer than a minute before getting that hot...... Is your water pump working correctly? Is it correct for your application? Is a hose collapsing? Or something plugged?
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 15th 2012, 11:14 am

I'm pretty sure the tune is good. I had a buddy of mine come over who does this stuff all the time to help me with that aspect.
The hoses are all brand new.
Not sure something plugged or the fan not working properly would cause the white scum with the black debris though, would it?
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  dfree383 on May 15th 2012, 11:59 am

What water, anti freeze or additives are you using?
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 15th 2012, 12:18 pm

Crap, just found out for sure that it's the head gasket. Looks like there is oil in the coolant and so I decided to check to see if anything came out of the spark plug holes and sure enough, I got splatter everywhere.
I spoke to the guys that built the engine and they basically said that I would need to take the engine back out and get it to them to check it. Personally, it doesn't seem right that my extra labor comes down on me for their mistake. They did say though that if it is their mistake they will do everything for free. However, I had accidently dropped this engine from about 4 feet because the bolts in the intake stripped. At this, I took the engine back to this same shop to have them check the crank for unbalance and they also said they magnaflexed the block and heads. They stated that everything checked out and I was good to go. Obvisoulsy, it wasn't!
So I asked, "well, what if the heads or bottom end are cracked?", they said "we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there". Now, since I had them re-check the engine (which I payed again for), shouldn't the fix be on their shoulders either way? I covered my bases so why should I get the shaft?

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  dfree383 on May 15th 2012, 12:21 pm

I think I'd find another shop, if you've already paid twice and they are going to try and hit you for a third...... Where you located?
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 15th 2012, 12:46 pm

I'm in Cali. I'm thinking I'll just get a hold of the buddy I have that did the tune for me. He races BBF's all the time. The only reason I didn't build the engine with him was because I hadn't met him yet.
I was really hoping to leave the engine in the car and just check the head gaskets, but if there's a possibility of something being cracked, I'll have to pull the whole thing regardless. One problem after another with this project.
Geez I'm pissed! Typically I find this hobby fun but right now, it's pretty frustrating.
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  dfree383 on May 15th 2012, 12:53 pm

How close are you to Chico?
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 15th 2012, 3:01 pm

Quite aways, I'm in central cali. I take it you know of a good shop in chico? Pretty sure I can't get there though.

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  jasonf on May 15th 2012, 4:11 pm

The motor needs to come out regardless but you could use a coolant system tester to pressurize the system and listen for leaks. It might help you narrow down where to start looking first.
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 15th 2012, 6:33 pm

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a picture of the impellar of the water pump that goes on this motor? I took the water pump off today just to make more clearance room for engine removal. The questions I got about correct rotation got me thinking and wondering if mine is correct.
I know the engine is rotating clockwise when facing the engine from the front which I believe is standard rotation and I am using a v-belt set-up.
So, which way should the blades on the impellar be facing?
In case mine is wrong, could this actually be the problem? If so, where is the sludge coming from?
Thanks,
Keith

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  dfree383 on May 15th 2012, 11:07 pm

Try John Beck in Chico. Let me know if you want me to get his number, I'll dig it up if you need it.


Last edited by dfree383 on May 16th 2012, 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  69F100 on May 16th 2012, 12:27 am

does your water pump have the plate on the back of it when buying a bbf water pump the standard pump they don't come with the plate on it you have to take it off your old pump i know i had to buy the backing plate for mine as i didn't have a old pump when i built mine
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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 16th 2012, 9:55 am

I purchased the water pump awhile ago so I don't remember if the backing plate came with it or not. If I could just get a picture of that impellar I could compare it to mine to find out if it is facing the correct way.

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  jasonf on May 16th 2012, 10:02 am

TheFrog wrote:I purchased the water pump awhile ago so I don't remember if the backing plate came with it or not. If I could just get a picture of that impellar I could compare it to mine to find out if it is facing the correct way.

They only made the impeller turn one way on 460s so it would have to be a major screw up on the manufacturers part.

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 16th 2012, 11:10 am

Good deal, that's exactly what my impellar looks like. So they never made a 460 version with a serpentine set-up?

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 16th 2012, 5:04 pm

TheFrog wrote:Good deal, that's exactly what my impellar looks like. So they never made a 460 version with a serpentine set-up?

NO ... not with a true serpentine system.

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Re: Overheating Issue

Post  TheFrog on May 23rd 2012, 12:35 pm

Hey guys,
Just an update. Called up the shop that built my engine this morning and found out that it was indeed their bad. They put one of the head gaskets on backward which obviously wasn't allowing coolant to get through the entire engine. I'm so thankful it was something so simple and wasn't worse. They also went through the entire top and bottom ends to make sure nothing was damaged. Thankfully it is all good cheers
Keith

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