Roller Lifter Question

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Roller Lifter Question

Post  1970 ford maverick on May 15th 2012, 4:19 pm

Took a 514 apart,Solid Roller, the bar that connects the two roller lifters together were facing the block instead of the intake. They were very close to the block,but not touching.Will this affect the oiling,can the roller lifters be used eitherway?,THNX MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  466cj on May 15th 2012, 4:31 pm

Which way you put them in depends on where the feed hole for oiling the pushrod is located. What you do NOT want is the feed hole exposed directly to the oil passage in the block as it will flood the top end with oil.

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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  1970 ford maverick on May 15th 2012, 4:47 pm

466cj wrote:Which way you put them in depends on where the feed hole for oiling the pushrod is located. What you do NOT want is the feed hole exposed directly to the oil passage in the block as it will flood the top end with oil.
THANKS ''466''cj,I looked at the lifters , the oil hole on the side of the lifter is facing down,and the lifter bores have been sleeved.All the other BBFs that Ive seen ,the bars were facing the top,do I have a problem ?,THNX MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  466cj on May 15th 2012, 6:37 pm

Does not sound like an issue. As long as the hole in the bushing does not line up with the hole in the lifter. What I would be more concerned with is since your lifters are bushed that the oil supply is not restricted also. I'm assuming you have been running the engine this way for awhile?

Steve

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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  rmcomprandy on May 15th 2012, 6:51 pm

1970 ford maverick wrote: Took a 514 apart,Solid Roller, the bar that connects the two roller lifters together were facing the block instead of the intake. They were very close to the block,but not touching.Will this affect the oiling,can the roller lifters be used eitherway?,THNX MAVMAN

That depends upon the lifter brand and how the oiling of that particular lifte is done.
Some can be installed either way and others have a particular way to be installed.
Having sleeves installed in the lifter bores changes what is needed by however the sleeves were installed and what is their oiling.

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ROLLER LIFTER Q

Post  1970 ford maverick on May 15th 2012, 9:03 pm

466cj wrote:Does not sound like an issue. As long as the hole in the bushing does not line up with the hole in the lifter. What I would be more concerned with is since your lifters are bushed that the oil supply is not restricted also. I'm assuming you have been running the engine this way for awhile?

Steve
Yes Sir, the engine had been running like this for sometime,and everything was good except at the end of a pass the oil preasure would drop to zero.We pulled it apart and the rod bearings were toast,mains were not as bad.Will check to make sure that the holes don't line up.THANKS MAVMAN
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ROLLER LIFTER QUESTION

Post  1970 ford maverick on May 15th 2012, 9:53 pm

466cj wrote:Which way you put them in depends on where the feed hole for oiling the pushrod is located. What you do NOT want is the feed hole exposed directly to the oil passage in the block as it will flood the top end with oil.
OK,checked the block and when the lifters are installed the way I desribed before,the hole in the lifter and the block are lining up. Engine had good oil pressure at idle,I drove the car and at the end of the pass I noticed the gauge at zero,shut it down and waited afew minutes before I restarted it and it took awhile for the pressure to come back up.So,were those lifters installed wrong?THANKS MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  Frank Merkl on May 15th 2012, 10:34 pm

put them with the tie bar to the center of the motor or it will pump the pan dry
Frank
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  466cj on May 15th 2012, 11:15 pm

1970 ford maverick wrote:
466cj wrote:Which way you put them in depends on where the feed hole for oiling the pushrod is located. What you do NOT want is the feed hole exposed directly to the oil passage in the block as it will flood the top end with oil.
OK,checked the block and when the lifters are installed the way I desribed before,the hole in the lifter and the block are lining up. Engine had good oil pressure at idle,I drove the car and at the end of the pass I noticed the gauge at zero,shut it down and waited afew minutes before I restarted it and it took awhile for the pressure to come back up.So,were those lifters installed wrong?THANKS MAVMAN

Yes they are in wrong and you all the oil is ending up in the valve covers.

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ROLLER LIFTER QUESTION

Post  1970 ford maverick on May 16th 2012, 8:34 am

Frank Merkl wrote:put them with the tie bar to the center of the motor or it will pump the pan dry
Frank
THANKS FRANK,When I took the intake off ,that was the first thing I noticed,the bars were facing down.THANKS MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  1970 ford maverick on May 16th 2012, 8:37 am

466cj wrote:
1970 ford maverick wrote:
466cj wrote:Which way you put them in depends on where the feed hole for oiling the pushrod is located. What you do NOT want is the feed hole exposed directly to the oil passage in the block as it will flood the top end with oil.
OK,checked the block and when the lifters are installed the way I desribed before,the hole in the lifter and the block are lining up. Engine had good oil pressure at idle,I drove the car and at the end of the pass I noticed the gauge at zero,shut it down and waited afew minutes before I restarted it and it took awhile for the pressure to come back up.So,were those lifters installed wrong?THANKS MAVMAN

Yes they are in wrong and you all the oil is ending up in the valve covers.
Thanks"466CJ"
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Post  1970 ford maverick on May 16th 2012, 9:47 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
1970 ford maverick wrote: Took a 514 apart,Solid Roller, the bar that connects the two roller lifters together were facing the block instead of the intake. They were very close to the block,but not touching.Will this affect the oiling,can the roller lifters be used eitherway?,THNX MAVMAN

That depends upon the lifter brand and how the oiling of that particular lifte is done.
Some can be installed either way and others have a particular way to be installed.
Having sleeves installed in the lifter bores changes what is needed by however the sleeves were installed and what is their oiling.
THANKS "RMCOMPRANDY" OK,these lifters have only one hole on the side,same side as the bar,so when installed this way,"facing down"the way they were ,the holes were lining up with the slot in the block.THANKS MAVMAN
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Post  1970 ford maverick on June 2nd 2012, 10:49 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:put them with the tie bar to the center of the motor or it will pump the pan dry
Frank
OK,took complete TopEnd from the 514 and put on a fresh 532 short blk,lifters with the bar facing the intake.Start priming engine and notice that theres no oil coming from the pushrods but the oil pressure gauge was picking up pressure,took all rockers and pushrods out,rolled lifters so bar is facing down,passenger side started pumping oil ,nothing on drivers side.Lifters have one oiling hole,sameside as bar,so when galley hole and lifter hole do not match up,I have no oil to the top,so I looked at the bushings in the 514 and see that the passenger side is completly closed off ,drivers side is restricted somewhat.Took a couple of lifters out of my SBF ,Also solid roller, they have two oiling holes,put two on the drivers side,and two on passenger side,started primming again and both sides were oiling.With that being said,what lifters do I need for this stock 460 BBF BLK THNX MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  powerstrokeace on June 2nd 2012, 11:11 pm

First off do you have any idea what size the hole is in the bushed lifter bores. Next is the hole in the bushing towards the center of the block or the out side of the block (it matters). Last when you said the hole in/on the lifter is in the bottom, do you mean its in the oil band area? Or is the hole on the side of the lifter wall.

Ace
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  1970 ford maverick on June 2nd 2012, 11:31 pm

powerstrokeace wrote:First off do you have any idea what size the hole is in the bushed lifter bores. Next is the hole in the bushing towards the center of the block or the out side of the block (it matters). Last when you said the hole in/on the lifter is in the bottom, do you mean its in the oil band area? Or is the hole on the side of the lifter wall.

Ace
No Sir, I know that it,s smaller than the factory slot in the block,and it is lined up with the factory slot. The hole in the lifter is on the side that the bar is,so when the hole and bar is facing the intake,upwards,im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings. THNX MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  powerstrokeace on June 2nd 2012, 11:39 pm

1970 ford maverick wrote:
powerstrokeace wrote:First off do you have any idea what size the hole is in the bushed lifter bores. Next is the hole in the bushing towards the center of the block or the out side of the block (it matters). Last when you said the hole in/on the lifter is in the bottom, do you mean its in the oil band area? Or is the hole on the side of the lifter wall.

Ace
No Sir, I know that it,s smaller than the factory slot in the block,and it is lined up with the factory slot. The hole in the lifter is on the side that the bar is,so when the hole and bar is facing the intake,upwards,im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings. THNX MAVMAN

im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings.

Now i'm confused. This engine has no bushing? You said earlier that this has been together and running before. You may have to put a small channel from the oil hole to the oil band area to get oil to the top end. I just went through this my self. look for chewed up push rods in this section of the forum


Ace
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  1970 ford maverick on June 3rd 2012, 12:02 am

powerstrokeace wrote:
1970 ford maverick wrote:
powerstrokeace wrote:First off do you have any idea what size the hole is in the bushed lifter bores. Next is the hole in the bushing towards the center of the block or the out side of the block (it matters). Last when you said the hole in/on the lifter is in the bottom, do you mean its in the oil band area? Or is the hole on the side of the lifter wall.

Ace
No Sir, I know that it,s smaller than the factory slot in the block,and it is lined up with the factory slot. The hole in the lifter is on the side that the bar is,so when the hole and bar is facing the intake,upwards,im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings. THNX MAVMAN

im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings.

Now i'm confused. This engine has no bushing? You said earlier that this has been together and running before. You may have to put a small channel from the oil hole to the oil band area to get oil to the top end. I just went through this my self. look for chewed up push rods in this section of the forum


Ace
Sorry to confuse you sir, I took the complete topend from the 514,which had bushings and put on a fresh 532 without bushings.
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  466cj on June 3rd 2012, 1:08 am

Do you know what brand lifters you have? If the hole is on the side with the bar than the bar would face the block, but some lifters like the standard Howard's have the hole on the bar side, but not parallel to the bar, more like at a 45 degree angle and those lifters install bar facing middle.

A picture of you lifters may help. The SBF lifters will pump all the oil to the top as the oil passage in a SBF (289, 302, 351w) goes thru the middle of the lifter, where the 429/460 has it at the top part of the lifter. The metering of the oil to to the top end is determined by the clearance between the lifter and bore. Provided the lifter to bore clearance is correct you should not have too much or too little oil metered. Sometime is an issue and can cut a .005 - .010" slot from the oil band to the hole to increase the oil feed, but it does not take much!

BTW the drivers side lifters are one of the last things to get oil so may take a bit longer during priming to see oil there.

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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  bosshoss on June 3rd 2012, 1:55 am

It goes like this. The oil hole on the lifter should never at any point during its full travel be exposed to direct oil pressure from the gallery. If it is your main bearings will not be happy bottom line. Some brands of lifter do require very minor grooving on the side of the lifter to allow enough oil to bleed by. The amount of oil required to the top end of these engines will easily flow through a single .062 restricter on the race blocks so dont expect to see oil flowing in copious amounts while priming with cold oil and the engine not turning.

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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  powerstrokeace on June 3rd 2012, 11:08 am

1970 ford maverick wrote:
powerstrokeace wrote:
1970 ford maverick wrote:
powerstrokeace wrote:First off do you have any idea what size the hole is in the bushed lifter bores. Next is the hole in the bushing towards the center of the block or the out side of the block (it matters). Last when you said the hole in/on the lifter is in the bottom, do you mean its in the oil band area? Or is the hole on the side of the lifter wall.

Ace
No Sir, I know that it,s smaller than the factory slot in the block,and it is lined up with the factory slot. The hole in the lifter is on the side that the bar is,so when the hole and bar is facing the intake,upwards,im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings. THNX MAVMAN

im not getting any oil to the top with this engine with no bushings.

Now i'm confused. This engine has no bushing? You said earlier that this has been together and running before. You may have to put a small channel from the oil hole to the oil band area to get oil to the top end. I just went through this my self. look for chewed up push rods in this section of the forum


Ace
Sorry to confuse you sir, I took the complete topend from the 514,which had bushings and put on a fresh 532 without bushings.

No Sir, I know that it,s smaller than the factory slot in the block,and it is lined up with the factory slot.

Here's your problem. the oil hole should not be lined up with the hole/slot in the block
The passage way in the block is in the 7-5 o'clock area right?
The lifter should be installed with the hole in the 12 o'clock area. at this point the clearance between the block and the lifter is now your metering point.
This is where you may need to cut a groove / Channel from the oil band to the hole to provide oil to the top end.

It's weird but I too have had a stock block 514 WITH lifter bushing and roller cam bearings for 12 years and no other oil mods even to the lifters with no problems.
Just this year I freshened up a motor (A460 Block No Bushing) and didn't see the old lifters with this done. As they were sent back to be rebuilt and lost. Thats another story. So when they sent a new set I just put them in and FAILED to prime the motor and see this . 19 runs later we had problems.

Ace
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  rmcomprandy on June 3rd 2012, 11:20 am

The inertia of the lifter going down the bore while running and the lifter bore clearance is what determines the amount of oil to the top end with an "edge orifice" type lifter.
Simply applying oil pressure as with priming while the lifter is not running will allow very, VERY LITTLE oil to the top. Unless of course the liter is reversed in the bore.

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"ROLLER LIFTERS"QUESTION

Post  1970 ford maverick on June 4th 2012, 11:50 pm

1970 FORD MAVERICK, "MAVMAN" would like to say, Thank you, to 466CJ,FRANK MERKL,RMCOMPRANDY,BOSSHOSS and POWERSTROKE"ACE"for helping me with my oiling problem,I put a small channel to the oil hole,now myself and the 532 are feeling much better!. THANKS AGAIN,MAVMAN
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Re: Roller Lifter Question

Post  powerstrokeace on June 5th 2012, 12:23 am

Thats what this forum is for. I know these guy's have helped me as well.

Ace
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