What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  whatbumper on June 23rd 2012, 1:57 am

ifucan wrote:
whatbumper wrote:

with a single 106 most likely around 6000 rpm max

hard to make blanket statements like that...I think it can go more but it will depend on cam specs, hot side setup, and ar ratio...if that is the case, this thing will be an 1/8 mile car as I plan to be at 6k in high gear well before it...the turbo was on a outlaw 10.5 car that went 7.2x's (on a small block granted), and I'm sure there is alot of exhaust energy there (more so than my car will have)...I don't want to get an ams but I may have to in order to track backpressure among other things

I am well aware of what a 106 unit is capable of. We ran one for a long time. So i dont really need the history of your turbo. I am just going off experience in this field and reading the rest of the build. There is no reason for 7000 rpm with the power you will be making. Everything you have will break if you can get that turbo to work at 7000rpm. That thing is capable of flowing 2400 hp. I was just giving some input. You guys are talking budget build and using all of these stock parts and then mention 7000rpm. I am not saying it is not possible, just trying to put some reality back into the conversation.

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  ifucan on June 23rd 2012, 9:56 am

[quote="whatbumper] There is no reason for 7000 rpm with the power you will be making. Everything you have will break if you can get that turbo to work at 7000rpm. I am not saying it is not possible, just trying to put some reality back into the conversation.[/quote]

let me begin by saying that I have appreciated your input thus far, so no need to get defensive. That said, by your post, it implied to me that you were saying the turbo could not support the bb beyond 6k as you nelgected to elaborate on your thought especially since I had already referenced the turbos ability to kill anything I own, sans maybe my dart smallblock. As far as 7k, i already trap 6300 with the setup in the car now, so I may need to be close to 7k, or gear it down but my hope is that with a 66 precision wastegate, I can dump alot of exhaust energy before it gets to the turbo and get this to move under 10-15 psi and not go crazy

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  whatbumper on June 23rd 2012, 10:48 am

You can get very large exhaust housings for that Turbo. Not from precision though. I have seen a 2.0 AR. R@emember that Turbo came from an industrial application to begin with.

The flow characteristics will be entirely different than NA as you know. We had a guy with a single 101 on a 429 run 5.80's on pump gas turning 6200 RPM and we had to kill boost the entire pass.

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  Paul Kane on June 23rd 2012, 12:45 pm

ifucan wrote:
Paul Kane wrote:I'd suggest an OEM 3.85 stroke 460 crank over an offshore cast 4.14".
Paul
yeah, I have decided to go 466 (w/a stock crank)...just wondering if it is worth it to go to a 4 bolt main and do a partial fill? What is the commonly held hp estimate of the stock crank and block on a good tune? Would this be dramatically increased by using billet 4 bolt main caps and a partial fill (still a streetcar so I don't want to remove all cooling capacity).
Staying with your concept of turbcharged build with the the stock parts, the OEM crankshaft and 2-bolt block should be suitable for a reliable build to 800 hp or so provided you really understand these 385 Sereies engines and also maintain good tune. A few hundred additional hp is further possible, just understand that engine maintenance begins to climb substantially when you go there.

Paul
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  Paul Kane on June 23rd 2012, 12:46 pm

ifucan wrote:guessing a 4 bolt main would necessitate a dove block and be of little to no benefit on a d1ve block
4-bolting a standard-webbed block will make a far stronger block than one that is not 4-bolted. Personally, I would look for a good standard bore block, sonic check it (ie, find a good block), bore accordingly, and thereby avert the block filler.
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  ifucan on June 23rd 2012, 4:10 pm

whatbumper wrote:had a guy with a single 101 on a 429 run 5.80's on pump gas turning 6200 RPM and we had to kill boost the entire pass.

This excites me. Exactly what I'm looking for. Who did the cam and what prep and internals did the engine have...thanks again

[quote="Paul Kane]. the OEM crankshaft and 2-bolt block should be suitable for a reliable build to 800 hp just understand that engine maintenance begins to climb substantially when you go there.

Paul
[/quote]

I definitely realize. These parts were never made to do what we are trying to get them to. No doubt, pushing through into higher hp will not only increase maintainence but also the necessiity of a tune that is spot on...

Paul Kane wrote: Personally, I would look for a good standard bore block, sonic check it (ie, find a good block), bore accordingly, and thereby avert the block filler.

Would it be worthwhile to track down a Dove over my d1 (both being 4 bolt splayed of course)? I'm looking at blue thunder mains, should I also try to go with the end caps as well or will just the middle three suffice? Any clearance problems with a fox body style oil pan to your knowledge? I've been looking at David Cole's builds and Dave McClain's builds for some direction... I am a bit concerned with the block fill as I will be street driving this, does it not help that much? Thanks again guys

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  whatbumper on June 23rd 2012, 11:06 pm

Stock crank at that time with BME rods that were used. Pistons were some cheapo pieces that filled the rod to deck difference. The cam was done by a guy that I am not allowed to mention on this site. I went back and looked at my records. Heads were some as cast ford cj heads and an as cast intake. He didn't run that combo long. He now has huge nitrous motor.

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  SixtySix Ford on June 24th 2012, 10:13 am

I am thinking about a 466 with TFS heads with a 5 speed trans and a single 88 for my 66 f100.... its not a drag truck by no means! Im just going for the cool factor, really. Oh and about 14lbs of boost?


Any thoughts?
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  ifucan on June 24th 2012, 10:30 am

whatbumper wrote:Stock crank at that time with BME rods that were used. Pistons were some cheapo pieces that filled the rod to deck difference. The cam was done by a guy that I am not allowed to mention on this site. I went back and looked at my records. Heads were some as cast ford cj heads and an as cast intake. He didn't run that combo long. He now has huge nitrous motor.

Lol, say no more about the cam, but who might you guys use now (I was thinking Ed Curtis but I know there are some guys (probably 2-3) on these boards that are also supposedly very good). No Block Fill? In regard to the crank was it the truck/commerical one or a regular run of the mill 4u? I don't have cj heads but I will have a really nice ported set of c9's...

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  whatbumper on June 25th 2012, 11:48 am

for a turbo deal I would call up Steve Morris 231-747-7520 that's who we use now.

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  ifucan on June 27th 2012, 4:26 pm

piece by piece...just ordered a Precision 66mm wastegate

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  8liter on June 29th 2012, 5:54 pm

There's a guy that did one years ago. Try here.... www.toohighpsi.com White Fairmont.

I would try this.....

Stock 2 bolt block, ARP hardware, stock 460 crank, any flavor of hbeams, low comp JE piston, D0VE heads with a good valve job and port, Cometic gaskets, Blowthru. Maybe E85?
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  ifucan on June 29th 2012, 6:51 pm

8liter wrote:There's a guy that did one years ago. Try here.... www.toohighpsi.com White Fairmont.

I would try this.....

Stock 2 bolt block, ARP hardware, stock 460 crank, any flavor of hbeams, low comp JE piston, D0VE heads with a good valve job and port, Cometic gaskets, Blowthru. Maybe E85?

checked it out...cool concept...they did a tt small turbos...I may have a line on a Dove block- i should be looking for a 2 bolt dove to convert to 4 bolt splayed right? This will be stronger than a d1ve with 4 bolt splayed provided they both sonic the same right? I was considering going e85 but the car currently only gets 7mpg and there is only one station that carries it...can't get far on a 10 gallon cell and dont want to run out (we'll see what stations have it next year and if it has caught on more I may make the jump)

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  8liter on June 29th 2012, 7:09 pm

At least you've got a station that sells it, the one I had shut down. Its 25 miles to get it for me. Getting splayed caps and Dove block is gonna cost about $1000 with all machine work, I just did one. Keeping it tuned right will do more for keeping it together.
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  jasonf on July 3rd 2012, 10:22 am

whatbumper wrote:keeping the cubes smaller would be better

How come?
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  whatbumper on July 3rd 2012, 11:20 am

jasonf wrote:
whatbumper wrote:keeping the cubes smaller would be better

How come?

To keep the exhaust energy/flow down in comparison with the power goal. This will ensure more efficiency. A large motor with a too small of turbo and turbo housing housing will create massive back pressure issues which limits your tuning window.

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Update-Plans change...

Post  ifucan on July 9th 2012, 10:04 pm

was able to sell my c9 heads, add a hundred bucks and pick up a complete motor consisting of an edelbrock performer intake (not that this will get used), dove c heads and a dove a block. Going to do a four bolt main, probably bush lifter bores, and may add fill and source a truck 429 crank (these two are big maybes)...My goal will be 1k to the ground

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on July 16th 2012, 8:32 am

I had thought of a turbo 429 build using a stock crank, h-beams, stock block and some iron heads that flow really well on the exhaust side. The intake side is already huge, so I was going to concentrate on the exhaust side.
I even modded my rear exit shorty headers to allow a front exit setup for the turbo(s) in my 87 Turbo Coupe:






Then I got a deal on a Procharger kit for a BBC with only 12 hours of dyno time.
I need to finish making the offset adapter to allow the bbc brackets to fit the bbf head.
It's a D1B setup and will flow enough air to support 900 + hp.
I can't decide if a 429 ( with 8.5 to 1 c.r. and 15 of boost) would be better than a 514 with 9.5 to 1 c.r. and 8 lbs of boost)
Anyway, I mocked it up in the Turbo Coupe and everything clears the stock hood (blow-thru setup)
The pics are with the old "truck engine" (not pretty)


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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  ifucan on July 16th 2012, 10:19 pm

83-88T-Bird Guy wrote: some iron heads that flow really well on the exhaust side. The intake side is already huge, so I was going to concentrate on the exhaust side.

my thoughts exactly...seen some boosted cars with pretty restrictive heads (on the intake side) put up good numbers as the blower or turbo will get the air in there one way or another (just shows up as a restriction aka boost/psi)...cool project, will be nice to see it run

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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  Northwest outlaw on August 16th 2012, 1:57 pm

Keeping a eye on this one.
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Re: What's your "as stock as possible" Turbo build?

Post  BUZZ BUZZARD on August 19th 2012, 6:12 pm

I had a '64 f100 with a 429 stock block crank and h-beams with two t3's and a holley 650 d3 heads and an rv cam it ran 12's. Also had a 1967 galaxie 4200 lbs 460 stock block , stock rods, cast pistons, d'3 heads, it ran 11's. Built new motor stock block two bolt main, stock 460 crank, eagle h-beams, je inverted domes, edelbrock performer heads, solid roller cam, torker intake, rons fuel injection with non vented injectors, one O pump and one o1/2 pump. C6 trany 4500 stall transbrake, single turbo 4200lb. Ran 10.18 at 134mph blowing through the convertor. It would stay on the revlimiter at 7200 the whole way down! Pushed out a set of copper head gaskets with an o-ringed block but didn't hurt the block or the crank. Thats tough!
If I had the time I would do it to the 557 in the T-Bird it would be a rocket.

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