C4 No forward gears

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Post  Tommyj466 on July 22nd 2012, 9:49 pm

3rd round of eliminations, finish burnout and roll up to stage....nothing, no forward gears. I still have reverse. It is a pan fill C4 with pro tree style brake. Linkage and fluid level are OK. Ideas on what to look for. Could band cause this? Lost second gear once due to band struts coming out.

Sounds like forward clutch, but hoping for something I can fix without dropping the tranny Laughing !

TJ
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Post  richter69 on July 22nd 2012, 10:03 pm

sounds like you already know what your gonna have to do........
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Post  Gregaust on July 23rd 2012, 4:36 am

richter69 wrote:sounds like you already know what your gonna have to do........

Won't be the band .. Forward clutch a good chance

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Post  Tommyj466 on July 23rd 2012, 4:52 am

Yeah, seems weird it took a dump coming out of the waterbox. I'm still gonna drop the pan and take a look before I drop it out.

TJ
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Post  whitefield on July 23rd 2012, 11:44 am

forward clutch drum burn up!
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Post  61coon on July 23rd 2012, 8:16 pm

Could a blown valve body gasket cause the forward clutch drum to burn up? This would starve it of fluid wouldn't it?
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Post  richter69 on July 23rd 2012, 9:22 pm

the culprit is not always the root cause........ find out what broke and why.
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Post  whitefield on July 23rd 2012, 11:01 pm

61coon wrote:Could a blown valve body gasket cause the forward clutch drum to burn up? This would starve it of fluid wouldn't it?

Most performance valve bodies won't have a gasket . I would look at pump pressure sticking valve clutch pack clearance . it could be a broken forward planet set even if it is a 6 pinion stripped sun gear on the forward planet broken in put shaft .. take it down and ripper appart!
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Post  Tommyj466 on July 24th 2012, 4:32 am

Yeah it's coming out, maybe this weekend, still in the trailer now. I'm leaning toward broken forward planetary gears since it happened coming out of waterbox. We'll see. Thanks for the input!

TJ
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Post  342g on July 24th 2012, 11:38 am


Prolly still had the old three pinion planatary.
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Post  richter69 on July 24th 2012, 11:41 am

IMO the 3 pinion w the torrington bearings under planet gears are stronger.
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Post  whitefield on July 24th 2012, 12:25 pm

I switched back to the 3 pinion about 3 years back , but TCI makes a good looking 6 pinion piece. I have used the TCI 6 pinion in two of my last big block builds will see how that pans out . Good luck and keep us updated on what you find.
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Post  Tommyj466 on July 24th 2012, 2:00 pm

Yeah, it's a factory 3 pinion planet. I swapped it out last time tranny was down (extra C4 for parts). I've wondered if the 6 pinion planet was any stronger, 6 little gears vs. 3 larger gears.

TJ
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Post  whitefield on July 24th 2012, 2:08 pm

Tommyj466 wrote:Yeah, it's a factory 3 pinion planet. I swapped it out last time tranny was down (extra C4 for parts). I've wondered if the 6 pinion planet was any stronger, 6 little gears vs. 3 larger gears.

TJ

I would go back with a good 6 pinion planet set ! I would do some research or the best 6 pinion planets . My vote is the one from TCI and or/Jay from Broader perfomance.
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Post  IDT-572 on July 24th 2012, 2:24 pm

whitefield wrote:
Tommyj466 wrote:Yeah, it's a factory 3 pinion planet. I swapped it out last time tranny was down (extra C4 for parts). I've wondered if the 6 pinion planet was any stronger, 6 little gears vs. 3 larger gears.

TJ

I would go back with a good 6 pinion planet set ! I would do some research or the best 6 pinion planets . My vote is the one from TCI and or/Jay from Broader perfomance.

6 spreads the load over a larger area and the smaller ones are made of better material.
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Post  richter69 on July 24th 2012, 3:08 pm

http://www.broaderperformance.com/en/ford-c4-/60-rollerized-forward-planet-gear.html



^^^^^^^^ for the win.............. Very Happy
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Post  whitefield on July 24th 2012, 3:50 pm

Not all are created equal ! http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=PA26418P+01
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/c4-six-pinion-low-drag-planetary-set.html
http://www.tciauto.com/tc/c4-six-pinion-forward-planetary.html

Dynamic even has one to help calm the launch down if you don't want to run a PG
http://www.lyonsperformance.com/gearset-p-980.html?pID=980

http://www.broaderperformance.com/en/ford-c4-/60-rollerized-forward-planet-gear.html

There will always be a debate on which one is better or stronger. My experiance tells me that a big block making good power needs a 6 pinion!
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Post  richter69 on July 24th 2012, 3:59 pm

my rollerized 3 pinion lasted 6 years behind my BB ranging from low 10's to low 9's at 3100-3400#'s lol. Its still going strong in my smallblock car................where a C4 belongs anyway.


BTW the accumulator showed Mike, I'll get your chip out asap............... Wink
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Post  whitefield on July 24th 2012, 4:55 pm

richter69 wrote:my rollerized 3 pinion lasted 6 years behind my BB ranging from low 10's to low 9's at 3100-3400#'s lol. Its still going strong in my smallblock car................where a C4 belongs anyway.


BTW the accumulator showed Mike, I'll get your chip out asap............... Wink

Good deal! Cool Not debating that that point any way or for that matter debating anything because it wouldn't be fair to the o.p.
Justing giving some options. Cool
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Post  stanggt on July 24th 2012, 8:01 pm

let us know what it was, I have a built C4 on the bench right now with same problem and same TB.This was driven to a parking lot and shut off then went to leave a bit later there was no forward gears but had reverse. Oil was clean and no signs of any debris floating anywhere but havent tore it completly apart yet. Redneck Performance built this one.
Tommyj466 wrote:3rd round of eliminations, finish burnout and roll up to stage....nothing, no forward gears. I still have reverse. It is a pan fill C4 with pro tree style brake. Linkage and fluid level are OK. Ideas on what to look for. Could band cause this? Lost second gear once due to band struts coming out.

Sounds like forward clutch, but hoping for something I can fix without dropping the tranny Laughing !

TJ
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Post  Gregaust on July 25th 2012, 5:01 am

Tommyj466 wrote:Yeah, it's a factory 3 pinion planet. I swapped it out last time tranny was down (extra C4 for parts). I've wondered if the 6 pinion planet was any stronger, 6 little gears vs. 3 larger gears.

TJ

The gears are all the same size 3 vs 6. Some of the 6 gear ones have the bearings under each gear , Some just have a lube groove . I've used P.A and TCI never had any issues

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Post  342g on July 25th 2012, 10:52 am

[quote="Gregaust"]
Tommyj466 wrote:Yeah, it's a factory 3 pinion planet. I swapped it out last time tranny was down (extra C4 for parts). I've wondered if the 6 pinion planet was any stronger, 6 little gears vs. 3 larger gears.

TJ

The gears are all the same size 3 vs 6. Some of the 6 gear ones have the bearings under each gear , Some just have a lube groove . I've used P.A and TCI never had any issues [/quotI

I never had a problem, after I went with P.A., and it is still going strong after about eight years, huh Mike.
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Post  cool40 on July 26th 2012, 10:16 pm

i had the PA gears in mine with no problems but it never had any with the stock one......
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Post  Tommyj466 on July 28th 2012, 9:08 pm

Well, I pulled the tranny Friday night. Found one sealing ring on the stator support dislodged, but nothing else. Clutches and seals in forward clutch were OK. Upgraded planet to PA 6 pinion while I had it apart. Fired it up while ago and all appears to be good. Thanks for the replies!

TJ
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Post  richter69 on July 28th 2012, 9:18 pm

that will do it, if it wasba teflon ring you have to make sure the scarf cuts are put together right.
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