Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

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Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  AlkyPinto on July 24th 2012, 11:02 am

Things were going really well with testing the new car (see Chassis Tech thread
http://www.429-460.com/t14467-4-link-preload) until the block cracked!
Had 44 runs on the brand new engine and was just starting to test the NOS
system. Have the really cool IDT Eliminator "Premier" model block with
siamese cylinders. I even had it filled! Unfortunately it must have had a
casting defect and cracked vertically in cyl #2 against the cyl #3 side
where it should have been solid. The way the cyl wall is caving in it looks
like theres an air pocket in the casting between cylinders 2 & 3. My
machinist looked at it and said it cant be fixed. Sent pics and talked
with Mike (Eliminator Owner) yesterday so waiting to see if they will
make good on it? Stay tuned....

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem?

Mike mentioned that there is a shortage of blocks available right now!
I cant use a SVO block as my bore size is 4.650". Does anyone know of
any Eliminator Premier blocks available anywhere???

Rich
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Lem Evans on July 24th 2012, 11:23 am

Your guy can't sleeve it?

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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Barney on July 24th 2012, 11:24 am

AlkyPinto wrote:Things were going really well with testing the new car (see Chassis Tech thread
http://www.429-460.com/t14467-4-link-preload) until the block cracked!
Had 44 runs on the brand new engine and was just starting to test the NOS
system. Have the really cool IDT Eliminator "Premier" model block with
siamese cylinders. I even had it filled! Unfortunately it must have had a
casting defect and cracked vertically in cyl #2 against the cyl #3 side
where it should have been solid. The way the cyl wall is caving in it looks
like theres an air pocket in the casting between cylinders 2 & 3. My
machinist looked at it and said it cant be fixed. Sent pics and talked
with Mike (Eliminator Owner) yesterday so waiting to see if they will
make good on it? Stay tuned....

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem?Contact Rich Wilhelm(boss 429) he may have an ultra block.

Mike mentioned that there is a shortage of blocks available right now!
I cant use a SVO block as my bore size is 4.650". Does anyone know of
any Eliminator Premier blocks available anywhere???

Rich
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  AlkyPinto on July 24th 2012, 11:35 am

My machinist looked at it on Friday and he said its too thin
between cylinders to do a sleeve. Especially if there is an air
pocket there and its not solid like its supposed to be. You can
kinda see in the pic how the cyl wall is caving in around the
crack.



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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  dfree383 on July 24th 2012, 12:52 pm

Sleeve that bicth and put it back on the front line! king
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  bbf-falcon on July 24th 2012, 1:16 pm

I disagree. Make them give you a new one. In the mean time,put in the backup engine and go racing. Hope everything goes well Rich.

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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  kjett on July 24th 2012, 2:29 pm

Man that would be pretty thin sleeve, but can't see why it can't be done, especially on a filled block. I saw one that looked thinner than that get fixed yesterday as I was learning how to fix my stock block. cheers
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Premier Block Issue

Post  IDTJay on July 24th 2012, 3:04 pm

BASIC INFORMATION
I (Jay) spoke with Rich last week regarding his Premier block issue. I provided my opinion as to the possible failure mode of his Premier block. I have listed below my thoughts:

1) During the assembly or casting process the water jacket core broke
2) A void (gas pocket) or obstruction did not allow the cast iron to fill this area between the bore.
3) The Sportsman water jacket was used in place of the Premier water jacket
NOTE: The Premier / Ultra blocks use a siamesed (no coolant passage) water jacket were as the Sportsman / HP Billet and Industrial use a 0.110” to 0.125” water passage way between the cylinder bores.

Unfortunately, we (IDT Engineering and Racing) do not provide any warranty support for Eliminator Products. Eliminator Products is owned by Mike Bowery. I supplied to Rich all of Mike’s contact information. IDT is listed on the Eliminator website as a dealer for Eliminator Products. The serial number of Rich’s block reveals that it was a Roush Industries machined block from 2007. IDT provided engineering (design and manufacturing) support to Eliminator Products up to LSM’s replacement of Roush as the machining supplier.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION
There are two cylinder block casting used to manufacture five types of Eliminator blocks. These castings can be identified by the lifter valley design. The Premier / Ultra use a “beefier” lifter valley were as the Sportsman, HP Billet and Industrial blocks use a conventional style lifter valley. At the time that this block was manufactured the casting supplier was pouring both types of castings simultaneously.

IDT ENGINEERING and RACING RELATIONSHIP TO ELIMINATOR PRODUCTS
IDT provided engineering and manufacturing support along with sales for Eliminator Products. Any warranty issues were referred to Eliminator Products and Mike Bowery. The final decision was Eliminator's. IDT provided technical and sales support for Eliminator. This relationship existed until a few years ago when Eliminator assumed control of sales and technical support.

I still believe that the Eliminator blocks are the best stock style aftermarket blocks available regardless of engine manufacturer. Motorcasting is a top casting supplier that provides castings for Dart, GM Racing and other prominent customers. Eliminator, Motorcasting, Roush and LSM have jointly produced thousands of these blocks without major quality issues.

LEM’s SLEEVING REPAIR
Lem’s idea to sleeve the block has merit but I believe that it might not be the best solution. If this block was cast with a Sportsman water jacket, the thin wall condition would exist between the other cylinder bores which potentially could fail later. Personally, I would like to know the thickness between the other bores at the same location.

IDT ENGINEERing and RACING INFORMATION
IDT provides engineering (design, testing, manufacturing and develop) for our customers. We also manufacture our own line of cylinder heads and sell new and used racing components.

Thanks,
Jay



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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  richter69 on July 24th 2012, 3:18 pm

I think I'd go down on bore size, get an A460 block, and turn that IDT block into a boat anchor.....................


Hell my A460 block is a Blem, per the sonic sheet only one cyl was 0.015 below spec on the minor side..................all the other 7 will go 4.700.............toss a sleeve in the lacking hole......................rambling I guess.

I'd sure be pissed if it were me though....you paid your money with the thoughts you's get a block that would fit your needs.....................poured incorrectly or not its not the op's fault..............


just my IMO...............
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  the Coug on July 24th 2012, 3:27 pm

Well that just made up my mind on the next Block and it will not be IDT, if they don't stand behind their product they can keep them....
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  dirt_worker on July 24th 2012, 3:53 pm

the Coug wrote:Well that just made up my mind on the next Block and it will not be IDT, if they don't stand behind their product they can keep them....

Its my understanding that both stated here and elsewhere...Eliminator and IDT are NOT the same company...
With that said, id assume its NOT IDT's responsibility to warranty.
Id still buy on w/o hesitation...but hey "I don't have a real job" so what do I know?
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  bruno on July 24th 2012, 3:55 pm

the Coug wrote:Well that just made up my mind on the next Block and it will not be IDT, if they don't stand behind their product they can keep them....

if it was a ford motorsports block , it would be the same story ......someone correct me if im wrong
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  richter69 on July 24th 2012, 4:00 pm

Hell if I know..................my motorsprts block aint broke lol. I'm not trying to start shit, most perf parts are sold with no warranty.....................I could understand if a rod went through it but a split cyl??? really???
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  bruno on July 24th 2012, 4:07 pm

i dont have a dog in this fight but .........

1- if i was building a high end deal with any of these blocks they should be sonic ck

2- it could be the tune ? , but the pic looks like it id paper thin ? why wasnt it caught in the machining process ?
looks like in the other bore there is a heat issue ???

3- if it was or is a know problem with these pieces the piblic should have known and they should all be sonic tested
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  richter69 on July 24th 2012, 4:46 pm

My A460 block came with a sonic sheet.............. Very Happy
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Lem Evans on July 24th 2012, 6:07 pm



LEM’s SLEEVING REPAIR
Lem’s idea to sleeve the block has merit but I believe that it might not be the best solution. If this block was cast with a Sportsman water jacket, the thin wall condition would exist between the other cylinder bores which potentially could fail later. Personally, I would like to know the thickness between the other bores at the same location.
Thanks,
Jay
[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed: If in fact the block has the non-siamesed water cores the other 7 cly. should be sonic checked before any investment was make to repair it.

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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Lem Evans on July 24th 2012, 9:31 pm

richter69 wrote:My A460 block came with a sonic sheet.............. Very Happy

All of those "blem" blocks came with the 'sheet'. Otherwise one would have to request one.

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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  kjett on July 24th 2012, 9:36 pm

So just for my novice info. If all the other cylinders were found to be similar with the openings between the walls, couldn't the block get 8 sleeves pressed in to make it a smaller bore block? I realize this isn't the best for this intended purpose, but it seems like a waste to chuck the block where a lower hp lever could still make use of it.
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Barney on July 24th 2012, 9:47 pm

Have you contacted Eliminator? Im sure if it is an error they will take care of it.
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  jasonf on July 24th 2012, 10:19 pm

You probably just missed it..

AlkyPinto wrote:

Sent pics and talked with Mike (Eliminator Owner) yesterday so waiting to see if they will
make good on it? Stay tuned....

Rich
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Barney on July 24th 2012, 10:24 pm

jasonf wrote:You probably just missed it..

AlkyPinto wrote:

Sent pics and talked with Mike (Eliminator Owner) yesterday so waiting to see if they will
make good on it? Stay tuned....

Rich
yeah i did. we've had good luck with Eliminator in the past. I'm sure they'll help
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  BigDave65 on July 24th 2012, 11:58 pm

IMO This goes beyond warranty. It appears to me the man didn't get what he paid big $$$ for!
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Mark Miller on July 25th 2012, 12:38 am

It looks like the OP bore on the Eliminator block is 4.65 what is the maximum bore that block can take?

Thanks Mark.

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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  Barney on July 25th 2012, 7:41 am

Mark Miller wrote:It looks like the OP bore on the Eliminator block is 4.65 what is the maximum bore that block can take?

Thanks Mark.
4.700
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Re: Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

Post  bbf-falcon on July 25th 2012, 11:10 am

I'm not a business owner but,If I was I wouldn't hesitate to replace it.Because if they don't the BAD publicity will cost more money down the road from future customers sales than the loss of the block. Replacing it w/o hassle will also gain them customers imo.

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