engine tech

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engine tech

Post  carlthomasd on August 23rd 2012, 9:37 am

I have a 557 bbf that I am having a hard time keeping starters and flexplates one it. It is grinding the teeth off
of them. I think the starter is not going far enough in to the flexplate . It is a J W bell and flexplate and all kinds
of starters the last one is a msd. I know some one out there has had this problem . I would like to know what
they did to get it right. thanks Carl Thomas





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Re: engine tech

Post  dfree383 on August 23rd 2012, 9:44 am

What Starter?

Do you have the Steel Plate / mid plate between the motor and the Bell?
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Re: engine tech

Post  Barney on August 23rd 2012, 10:09 am

I ended up getting a block saver plate from Keith Fulp, and CSR aluminum flywheel, powermaster ultra torque starter. works perfect. Keith can make the block saver plate different thicknesses to fit you needs.
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Re: engine tech

Post  richter69 on August 23rd 2012, 10:25 am

i run a jw bell and wheel, also one of the factory gear reduction starters. my starter bolts directly to the bell.
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Re: engine tech

Post  IDT-572 on August 23rd 2012, 12:39 pm

richter69 wrote:i run a jw bell and wheel, also one of the factory gear reduction starters. my starter bolts directly to the bell.

X2
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Re: engine tech

Post  richter69 on August 23rd 2012, 12:58 pm

Its all about getting the starter centered and depth located where it needs to be.
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starter and flexplate

Post  carlthomasd on August 23rd 2012, 2:08 pm

who is Keith Fulp and how do I get in touch with him

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Re: engine tech

Post  jasonf on August 23rd 2012, 2:35 pm

He is on the board but here is his website. I have never used his products but everyone that does is very happy with them and his service.

http://www.keithfulpmotorsports.com/
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starter and flexplate

Post  carlthomasd on August 23rd 2012, 6:39 pm

I talked to Keith and he is going to make me a plate that will put the starter closer to the flexplate
thanks for the info.

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Re: engine tech

Post  Wheelie58 on August 23rd 2012, 7:49 pm

Thanks guys for the referral!
Carl and I had a good talk about his setup, and we are going to fix him up with a custom starter locator plate...slightly relocating his starter inboard...just a tad.
Nice talking with you Carl.
Thanks!
Keith
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Re: engine tech

Post  jasonf on August 24th 2012, 9:21 am

Wheelie58 wrote:Thanks guys for the referral!
Carl and I had a good talk about his setup, and we are going to fix him up with a custom starter locator plate...slightly relocating his starter inboard...just a tad.
Nice talking with you Carl.
Thanks!
Keith

Is that a common thing Kieth? I thought the whole purpose of the block plate was to locate the starter in the right position to begin with.
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Re: engine tech

Post  Wheelie58 on August 24th 2012, 9:51 am

Very uncommon...
This is the second request that I have filled for custom offset starter locator plates.
I will assume that variations exist in aftermarket flexplates, ring gears, starter pinions and such.
I have experienced variations in block dowel locations on OE blocks as well.
My personal Eliminator blocks and Ultrabells are happy with Ford's factory location.
Nevertheless, my starter locator plate can easily be produced with custom features.
Matter of fact, I have Carl's custom plate in the car next to me.
Ordered yesterday...laser cut this AM while I waited.
Thanks,
Keith
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Re: engine tech

Post  carlthomasd on August 29th 2012, 10:12 pm

I want to thank you for putting me on to Keith. The new block plate fixed me up. my starter is doing just fine.

thank you Keith Carl Thomas

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Re: engine tech

Post  Larry Williams on August 29th 2012, 10:42 pm

richter69 wrote:i run a jw bell and wheel, also one of the factory gear reduction starters. my starter bolts directly to the bell.

how deep is the wear pattern on the drive? Mine is 3/16 inch
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Re: engine tech

Post  IDT-572 on August 29th 2012, 10:51 pm

I always bolt a new engine trans combo together before it goes in the car. I put the starter on and disconnect the main power wire and just heat the solenoid to make the drive jump out into the flex plate to see how it meshes. Then you know if you have problems before you damage a started or flex plate.

If you do this everything works as soon as the engine goes in the car.
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locator

Post  66prostreetfairlane on August 29th 2012, 11:25 pm

I am running a A460 block with a C4 using a JW bell. I have on factory mini starters from db electric. This is for a car that will be 95% street driven.

Question: Should i be running the starter locator plate with this setup? When i had my converter built i gave my mid plate thickness would the locator mess with clearances?
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Re: engine tech

Post  dfree383 on August 30th 2012, 12:12 am

I run a Mid Plate on mine, but it doesn't have the starter surround.
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Re: engine tech

Post  Wheelie58 on August 30th 2012, 1:23 am

66prostreetfairlane wrote:I am running a A460 block with a C4 using a JW bell. I have on factory mini starters from db electric. This is for a car that will be 95% street driven.

Question: Should i be running the starter locator plate with this setup? When i had my converter built i gave my mid plate thickness would the locator mess with clearances?

Yes...
You should run a starter locator plate. Without it, your starter will possibly not be in the proper relationship with the ring gear. Since the Ultrabell doesn't have an accurate starter register hole, you are just using the mounting bolts to serve as a locating system without a plate.
Yeah...I know...there are lots of guys who don't use one and have no problems.
You can modify a stock plate to fit with an Ultrabell.
I think they are about .065 to .075 thick, so that would be considered in the converter spacer thickness.
I make locator plates and mid plates with the starter locator integrated in the design.
Mine fit the 164 tooth flexplates like C6 or Ultrabell/Glide uses.
I am not sure if the JW C4 is the same...

Keith
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Re: engine tech

Post  Wheelie58 on August 30th 2012, 7:14 am

IDT-572 wrote:I always bolt a new engine trans combo together before it goes in the car. I put the starter on and disconnect the main power wire and just heat the solenoid to make the drive jump out into the flex plate to see how it meshes. Then you know if you have problems before you damage a started or flex plate.

If you do this everything works as soon as the engine goes in the car.

That is a good thing to do. Especially when dealing with so many aftermarket parts, with so many variable tolerances.
Thanks,
Keith
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Re: engine tech

Post  Wheelie58 on August 30th 2012, 7:31 am

carlthomasd wrote:I want to thank you for putting me on to Keith. The new block plate fixed me up. my starter is doing just fine.

thank you Keith Carl Thomas

No problem Carl. It is great to help out in those special applications when we seem to keep putting on the best parts, but things still just don't mesh properly.

In Carl's case, we made a starter locator plate with a .050" positive starter offset (toward the crank centerline) The starter bolt holes normally have enough "slop" to allow minor adjustment like this. We maintained the original 4.090" starter register hole dimension, so the starter is solidly located (no hole slotting) and will stay put if the engine kicks back.

I made another one for a racer that needed .070" offset a few months ago. Is it the block tolerance for dowel location? Is it the Ultrabell machining? Is it the aftermarket flexplate tolerances? It could be one or a stackup of more than one. At least we have a simple solution if faced with the problem of starter pinion to ring gear tooth mesh.

I am considering making a special starter locator plate with the register hole portion removeable and with a .040 to .070 eccentric feature that would allow custom tuning of the gear mesh. The laser cutting technology would keep the fit tight. I just worry about it staying put when removing the engine/trans.

Thanks!
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