Windsor oil woes.

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Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 8th 2012, 7:43 pm

A friend of mine races a 408" Windsor powered Fox Mustang. Last week he noticed that the oil pressure had dropped from its normal 65 psi down to about 25-30 psi. Of particular note is the fact that he says that it now takes about 30 seconds after startup (Yes, I said 30 seconds!! Shocked ) to build that 30 psi. I've told him that anytime you see a dramatic change in your normal oil pressure, you have a problem. My guess is a crack or leak somewhere in the pump/pickop area, causing the slow pressure build and most likely aerating the oil. I've also told him the engine needs to come out to find a solution and to inspect for potential bearing damage.

He replaced the gauge and reports a "slight" improvement (at least in his mind) in pressure, but no change in the slow pressure rise at startup. He has also decided to run it as is, and "keep an eye on it". I was unaware that "keeping an eye on it" could prevent carnage. Rolling Eyes

I figure a few informed opinions from this board might persuade him to park it and fix it, rather than tear up some good equipment, maybe making a mess on a track, or worse. He is not a member of this board, so flame away and I'll use your responses to show him the light. Come to think of it, this car is coming to my shop for some electronics work...maybe I'll just lock the doors 'til it's fixed.

408" factory block Windsor, Milodon fox pan & pickup.
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  IDT-572 on October 8th 2012, 9:47 pm

Have him put an other mechanical gauge with a good line right at the block and check the pressure again. If it is still coming up slow and only thirty lb.s tell him to drop the pan.

He has problems that will not self heal. Twisted Evil
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  bosshoss on October 9th 2012, 12:48 am

Denial is a terrible thing. Like you said, sudden oil pressure changes dont just happen by themselves. Something is wrong. Simple as that. Might just be the oil filter has he changed that yet?

dkp
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  bosshoss on October 9th 2012, 12:48 am

oops double post
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  ustahava67 on October 9th 2012, 10:55 am

Doubt it's a filter problem... It could be ... could be a block splitting up the cam/main bores.... He will need those Speed Racer oil-resistant super-traction tires if he continues to hammer it
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  IDT-572 on October 9th 2012, 11:50 am

ustahava67 wrote:Doubt it's a filter problem... It could be ... could be a block splitting up the cam/main bores.... He will need those Speed Racer oil-resistant super-traction tires if he continues to hammer it

Those 86 mustangs look good from the front don't they.................. Wink

I hope I never need those tires your talking about Shocked
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  Wheelie58 on October 9th 2012, 12:06 pm

It sounds like the engine surely has an internal leak or something going on.
The oil filter should be inspected for evidence of bearing material.
It could be something as simple as a stuck pressure regulator valve in the oil pump.
That can be fixed with only labor, gaskets and oil.
If the engine stays in service, it will most likely see more degradation of internals.
I vote for the pan coming off.
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 9th 2012, 5:20 pm

Thank you, gentlemen. He my be swayed by the opinions of many. If not, I may just yank that booger out while it's in my garage...I figure I'll get no argument if it's already out. If I can't get that done, I'll go to his next race and take along a bag of kitty litter.

Will check that filter thing first...I'm not a glutton for punishmet. Mad
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 11th 2012, 9:46 pm

He listened. We checked out the filter deal and we had a talk. We're pulling the engine this weekend. Will update when we know more. Thanks again, guys.
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  ianxy351 on October 12th 2012, 6:52 pm

Let us all know what you find. Its always good to hear what has caused a problem.

We had a guy here loose an engine a while back because of a crack in his oil pickup. He had been chasing a pressure issue for a couple of weeks and lost the whole engine when the pickup sheared from the pump flange. The weld on the pickup tube to the flange was cracked and eventually the whole pickup sheared off. Not pretty but a lesson learned and also showed why we use mechanical gauges rather than electric!

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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 13th 2012, 9:00 am

We're hoping it's as simple as a cracked pickup tube. If it is, this will be a good time for a freshen up. If it's not, it'll be a great time for upgrades.
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  LivermoreDave on October 13th 2012, 10:06 am

If you guys haven't removed the engine from the car, I would check a few things first.

1. Change the oil filter and use the original gauge. Inspect the oil filter's media.
2. Change the oil pressure gauge and mount it as close to the block as possible.
3. Pull the intake manifold and check the oil passage crossover's plug at the rear lifter valley wall.

Just a few things that may save you a bit of time. If none of the above show signs of failure, my best wishes to ya!

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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 13th 2012, 7:37 pm

Thanks, Dave. We're looking. Different filter now, different gauge now. This sympom is something that recently surfaced after tons of runs with perfectly normal oil pressure. We're sure this is an internal problem...just not sure how serious yet. Suspect
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  jbozzelle on October 13th 2012, 7:58 pm

Could be a oil pump with a cracked housing just like the BBF will do... I had that on my 351 years ago.

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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 13th 2012, 8:05 pm

jbozzelle wrote:Could be a oil pump with a cracked housing just like the BBF will do... I had that on my 351 years ago.

We're hoping it's that simple, or maybe just a cracked pickup tube. This thing has been an absolutely DEADLY bracket car. I've never seen a gas powered door car print time slips like this. Shocked
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  foxbigblock on October 14th 2012, 12:00 am

What year is the block? If its a roller it could have cracked at the can bearings
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  maverick on October 14th 2012, 5:28 pm

Bingo! Very Happy

It's a cracked pickup tube. The crack occurred right next to the weld that attaches the stabilizer strap to the tube. The tube would have broken completely in two except for the fact that the end was laying on the bottom of the pan. As such, it only bent to open up a pretty good sized leak.

We welded the tube, checked for leaks and added a second strap to support the rear end of the tube.

Bearings actually look pretty damn good, all things considered. We're tossing in a new set anyway. So glad he didn't run it this weekend!

BTW, this is a D4 block. We found no other issues. cheers

Thanks, guys.
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  ustahava67 on October 14th 2012, 6:43 pm

Glad it wasn't a worst case thing. It's always good when you find a simple problem with a simple fix Wink
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Re: Windsor oil woes.

Post  LivermoreDave on October 14th 2012, 6:57 pm

Glad to hear of ya'lls good luck! ... bounce bounce bounce bounce ...

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