Connecting rod failure

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Go down

Connecting rod failure

Post  Dave De on October 24th 2012, 9:29 pm

Just put it back together and went back to the track after a short break-in.

Ran three 1/8th miles and on the third 1/4 at the end of the track right at the trap #2 rod broke about 2 inches from the wrist pin.
Ive been having trouble keeping oil pressure at shutdown and last Sunday was no different. The bearings show lack of oil again and I think the rod failure was not related. I'm getting ready to throw it in and change direction unless I can get a handle on this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This is what I have (had).

69 Mustang ProStreet tube chassis the engine angle is zero when the car normally sits and at shutdown there is a slight angle forward.
547 D9 block, forged crank, 6.8 Eagle H beams, Diamond flat tops, SCJ heads, solid roller, Kaase pump, Moroso 20614 pan. Ran 9.60's at 142
Clearances were 2.5 rods and 3 to 3.5 mains.
The only thing thats left useable is the the heads complete with 14 bent valves, 6 rods and pistons and the usual non moving items.

Also am I asking too much to go mid 9's with a factory block, steel rods and have oil pressure at shutdown with a 3100 pound car?

Dave
avatar
Dave De

Posts : 556
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Utica, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Hiltigun on October 24th 2012, 9:38 pm

Moroso Accusump is your friend. I run 9.90's with a similar set up, and I would lose oil pressure when I hit the braked. After the accumulator install my problem was solved.

Hiltigun

Posts : 10
Join date : 2009-11-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  richter69 on October 24th 2012, 9:42 pm

Ive had a 3 quart accumulator on the car ever since it ran 10's, even with all the baffles and trap doors in the world in the pan g force is a bitch to overcome with a hot liquid.

sorry for the damage, Id verify everything else is in check then add an accusump.
avatar
richter69

Posts : 13645
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 47
Location : In the winners circle

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  cool40 on October 24th 2012, 10:27 pm

i've always had 0 psi trouble with my 1/8 mile car.it'll drop on the brakes and end up at 0 as i turn off but comes back as soon as i turn.i've made lots of passes this way without any bearing or rod trouble.my new motor with a good pan does the same thing so i'm thinking the accusump is my next move,or a dry sump.good luck Smile
avatar
cool40
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 7171
Join date : 2009-08-31
Age : 47
Location : on the 1/8 mile dyno

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  bbf-falcon on October 25th 2012, 12:19 am

Have you double checked the distance your pickup tube is from the pan bottom?needs to be 1/4 to no more than 3/8" from the bottom. Is it a front sump or rear? X2 on the 3 qt. accusump accumulator. Smile

bbf-falcon

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Jackson, Ohio

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Paul Kane on October 25th 2012, 1:45 am

What is your "good" oil pressure?

What type of oil are you using?

1/2-groove or 3/4-groove main bearings?

Same or different rod throw each time?
avatar
Paul Kane

Posts : 831
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Dave De on October 25th 2012, 7:16 am

bbf-falcon wrote:Have you double checked the distance your pickup tube is from the pan bottom?needs to be 1/4 to no more than 3/8" from the bottom. Is it a front sump or rear? X2 on the 3 qt. accusump accumulator. Smile

Moroso 20614 is a 7 qt. rear sump drag pan with screen, scrapper and doors. Pickup was no more than .30 from the bottom measured with clay.

Dual remote oil filters were used.


Last edited by Dave De on October 25th 2012, 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Dave De

Posts : 556
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Utica, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Dave De on October 25th 2012, 7:21 am

Paul Kane wrote:What is your "good" oil pressure?

What type of oil are you using?

1/2-groove or 3/4-groove main bearings?

Same or different rod throw each time?

Kaase pump was giving 60 psi max and 25-30 psi at 1300 rpm both hot.
Break-in oil was valvoline 10w40 and at time of failure. I was going to switch to Brad Penn 20w-50 the next day.
1/2 groove on the mains Clevite 77's

What do mean by same or different rod thow? There was only one rod failure on #2 cylinder.

avatar
Dave De

Posts : 556
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Utica, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  JACKAZZFLATZ on October 25th 2012, 7:52 am

REAL sorry to hear about your engine. I too, feel your pain.
avatar
JACKAZZFLATZ

Posts : 245
Join date : 2009-11-24
Location : N/W MICHIGAN

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  the Coug on October 25th 2012, 1:22 pm

Dave I am going to give you something to ponder.....

the Moroso is 7 1/2 deep in the front and 8 1/2 deep in the rear and 7 quarts.

the Milidon is 7 1/2 deep in the front and 8 1/2 in the rear and hold 9 quarts + filter.

I am going to take a big shot in the dark but I am thinking you are running 3 quarts low on oil is the reason you are running out of oil PSI and when you decelerate for the turn you rush what oil you do have to the front and away from your pickup tube.....

Also one more thing is this BBFs have to have a Windage tray,preferable a metal one not a wire mesh they have a tendency to pick up oil out of the pan and keep it in the rotating assembly



I am sorry you are having such bad luck , I hope this helps

Randy
avatar
the Coug

Posts : 3055
Join date : 2008-12-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  quick 52 on October 25th 2012, 2:12 pm

the Coug wrote:Dave I am going to give you something to ponder.....

the Moroso is 7 1/2 deep in the front and 8 1/2 deep in the rear and 7 quarts.

the Milidon is 7 1/2 deep in the front and 8 1/2 in the rear and hold 9 quarts + filter.

I am going to take a big shot in the dark but I am thinking you are running 3 quarts low on oil is the reason you are running out of oil PSI and when you decelerate for the turn you rush what oil you do have to the front and away from your pickup tube.....

Also one more thing is this BBFs have to have a Windage tray,preferable a metal one not a wire mesh they have a tendency to pick up oil out of the pan and keep it in the rotating assembly



I am sorry you are having such bad luck , I hope this helps

Randy
how far below the pan rail is the oil supposed to be that should solve the the level answer

quick 52

Posts : 612
Join date : 2011-01-14
Age : 67
Location : leonard mi.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Lem Evans on October 25th 2012, 3:41 pm

The MOR. 20614 is listed as a 7 qt pan but, at the bottom of every page in the oil pan section has a note.
"NOTE: oil pan capacties DO NOT include oil filter capacity"

I've used that pan a few times and used a total system of 8 qts. with the filter block mounted. With your dual filter remote setup the total system may need to be more like 9qts.

Also, what does the remote adapter that attaches to the block look like? Some brand's block adapter designs leave a lot to be desired i.m.o.


Last edited by Lem Evans on October 25th 2012, 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

Lem Evans

Posts : 7157
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Livermore , Ky

View user profile http://bfevansraceparts.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  k.pascoe on October 25th 2012, 5:12 pm

Get rid of the H-beams and go with I-beam rods.

k.pascoe

Posts : 30
Join date : 2010-04-22
Age : 56
Location : Fenton, MO.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  the Coug on October 25th 2012, 5:32 pm

k.pascoe wrote:Get rid of the H-beams and go with I-beam rods.





nothing wrong with H beam rods some people have been running them over 1000 hp no problems.... no matter which rod I use they always get Magi-fluxed when I get them even thou they are supposedly checked before packaging......
avatar
the Coug

Posts : 3055
Join date : 2008-12-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  56Tbird on October 25th 2012, 7:07 pm

You lose alot of oil out of your pan with 2 filters plus you have to figure how much oil your line running to the remote location holds.you could possibly be losing over 3 quarts of oil ? That sux ,I've been there too!!
avatar
56Tbird
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 5255
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 59
Location : Hawesville,Ky.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  BOSS 429 on October 25th 2012, 7:11 pm

the Coug wrote:Dave I am going to give you something to ponder.....

the Moroso is 7 1/2 deep in the front and 8 1/2 deep in the rear and 7 quarts.

the Milidon is 7 1/2 deep in the front and 8 1/2 in the rear and hold 9 quarts + filter.

I am going to take a big shot in the dark but I am thinking you are running 3 quarts low on oil is the reason you are running out of oil PSI and when you decelerate for the turn you rush what oil you do have to the front and away from your pickup tube.....

Also one more thing is this BBFs have to have a Windage tray,preferable a metal one not a wire mesh they have a tendency to pick up oil out of the pan and keep it in the rotating assembly




I am sorry you are having such bad luck , I hope this helps

Randy



I your bet right on the low oil deal, I dynoed an engine this summer the poor guy broke 2 times,When he brought it to me went thru it,and wanted to dyno this time( other builder didnt dyno it)


while I was hooking thing up he added the oil, after priming the engine we were ready.First pull going to 5500 I saw the oil drop to 39 from 75,clicked it off.I then asked how much oil did he pour in? He said 7,I SAID THIS ENGINE NEEDS AT A MIN 9Q'S. Then says all i ever ran was 7, well I addeed 1 more,and it went from 75 to 45 @ 6200, I stoped the run,added the 9th q and we pulled it to 7600 stayed it 72lbs, needless to say how much oil he runs now,and @ idle it is a lot higher also.

I felt bad for him.
avatar
BOSS 429

Posts : 2240
Join date : 2009-08-10
Location : Ill

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Dave De on October 25th 2012, 7:12 pm

Interesting comments on the pan capacity. I always had 8 to 10 quarts of oil in it and it didnt matter much. At the time of failure it had 9.5 quarts in it. The remote fitting on the block has straight pipe thread projections on it and they are fairly wide open with hose adapters at a 45 degree angle.
Accu-sump will not hurt but seriously it is not going to solve this. Lets face it that Moroso pan is not going to work period and if there is anyone that has it and its working please speak up.
I hear there is a good Canton pan and that Lem has pans that people have had this issue solved or reduced. Another poor selection is the Kaase oil pump with its standard volume makes it good for a dyno queen. We need higher volume with our loose clearances. I just cant see how a standard volume pump is the right choice. i think if I build another its going to have Pauls HV pump in it.

I thought someone would say "I had that problem and this __?__ pan solved the issue. Or even a tray that helped. I see other cars at the track without Accu-Sumps going low 9's and have had converstions about oiling. They seem oblivious to a probem there.

Also Eagle H beams at 800 hp has anyone lost one like mine? I beams? I probably need a better rod than Eagle...any recommendations?

Thanks for the sympathy and I'm sorry to be blunt but I'm still pissed.

Dave



avatar
Dave De

Posts : 556
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Utica, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Lem Evans on October 25th 2012, 7:20 pm


The remote fitting on the block has straight pipe thread projections on it and they are fairly wide open with hose adapters at a 45 degree angle.

Brand? Got a picture?

Lem Evans

Posts : 7157
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Livermore , Ky

View user profile http://bfevansraceparts.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  bbf-falcon on October 25th 2012, 7:34 pm

Dave De wrote:Interesting comments on the pan capacity. I always had 8 to 10 quarts of oil in it and it didnt matter much. At the time of failure it had 9.5 quarts in it. The remote fitting on the block has straight pipe thread projections on it and they are fairly wide open with hose adapters at a 45 degree angle.
Accu-sump will not hurt but seriously it is not going to solve this. Lets face it that Moroso pan is not going to work period and if there is anyone that has it and its working please speak up.
I hear there is a good Canton pan and that Lem has pans that people have had this issue solved or reduced. Another poor selection is the Kaase oil pump with its standard volume makes it good for a dyno queen. We need higher volume with our loose clearances. I just cant see how a standard volume pump is the right choice. i think if I build another its going to have Pauls HV pump in it.

I thought someone would say "I had that problem and this __?__ pan solved the issue. Or even a tray that helped. I see other cars at the track without Accu-Sumps going low 9's and have had converstions about oiling. They seem oblivious to a probem there.

Also Eagle H beams at 800 hp has anyone lost one like mine? I beams? I probably need a better rod than Eagle...any recommendations?

Thanks for the sympathy and I'm sorry to be blunt but I'm still pissed.

Dave

The Pan is the same one I have. You have other problems than the Pan. The Kaase pump and the Eagle H beams are not the culprit either. You are barking up the wrong tree imo.




bbf-falcon

Posts : 8992
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Jackson, Ohio

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  richter69 on October 25th 2012, 7:34 pm

nothin wrong with h beams, they are whats in my deal and I aint easy on um.........


with the accumulator I run 11.5 qts total in my deal also.
avatar
richter69

Posts : 13645
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 47
Location : In the winners circle

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Lem Evans on October 25th 2012, 7:38 pm

The Eagle rods should have not broken @ 800 HP. I do not think it has anything to do with H vs I at this level.
The Scat or Manley would be a upgrade...if needed.

The oil pump is not the issue unless you have a rare defective unit.

The Moroso pan aint no super trick piece but, I've seen it work in higher rpm engines....it is a decent pan for the money.

I'm not clear about the adapter housing.......is it Canton....Trans-dapt...etc... ?


Lem Evans

Posts : 7157
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Livermore , Ky

View user profile http://bfevansraceparts.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  richter69 on October 25th 2012, 7:41 pm

what oil filters? and size of the hoses?
avatar
richter69

Posts : 13645
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 47
Location : In the winners circle

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  cool40 on October 25th 2012, 8:37 pm

i've ran 2 kaase pumps without problems.my last one held 75psi cold and 50 hot with 15-40 oil.it also had a milodon chassis pan on it.can you not do without the relocator setup?
avatar
cool40
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 7171
Join date : 2009-08-31
Age : 47
Location : on the 1/8 mile dyno

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Dave De on October 25th 2012, 8:53 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
The remote fitting on the block has straight pipe thread projections on it and they are fairly wide open with hose adapters at a 45 degree angle.

Brand? Got a picture?

Its probably a Trans Adapt its says made in the USA on it. Lines are 1/2" ID and about 3 ft long. filters are FL-1

http://s134.beta.photobucket.com/user/Dave521/media/DSCN0163.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s134.beta.photobucket.com/user/Dave521/media/DSCN0162.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s134.beta.photobucket.com/user/Dave521/media/DSCN0161.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2


Last edited by Dave De on October 25th 2012, 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Dave De

Posts : 556
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Utica, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Connecting rod failure

Post  Dave De on October 25th 2012, 8:56 pm

cool40 wrote:i've ran 2 kaase pumps without problems.my last one held 75psi cold and 50 hot with 15-40 oil.it also had a milodon chassis pan on it.can you not do without the relocator setup?

If i could find a filter that was about 2 inches long it would clear the frame.
avatar
Dave De

Posts : 556
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Utica, MI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum