Accumulator Tech.

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Accumulator Tech.

Post  Victor L on October 30th 2012, 2:13 pm

This accumulator is plumbed directly into the oil galley beside the mechanical fuel pump. The -10 line comes out of the block from a 45 degree fitting, directing the line up to clear the fuel pump, and power steering pump. The line goes over the valve cover, through the firewall, then along the floorboard to the trunk, to the electric solenoid, and the three quart Moroso accumulator. The solenoid is activated by the ignition switch, and the optional toggle.
The first time I started the engine, after installing the accumulator, I had to add three quarts of oil, to bring the oil level back to full.
Before installing the accumulator, I would crank the engine with the starter for a few seconds to bring the oil pressure up, before firing the engine. Now, with the accumulator installed, I have to crank the engine much longer for the oil pressure to build up. It builds pressure quicker if the solenoid is left off/closed.
The concern is, could there be air trapped in the line that could be fed to the bearings in the event of oil starvation?
The pan is a 9 quart, with a custom double crank scraper, and a high volume oil pump.
Thanks in advance for your knowledge.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  rmcomprandy on October 30th 2012, 2:35 pm

When the accumulator is discharged into the engine a pre-oiling situation takes place however, upon fire-up the oil needs to refill the accumulator before you will see any appreciable oil pressure.

If you can start the engine WHILE the accumulator is initially discharging, that scenario shows to be much less.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  richter69 on October 30th 2012, 2:45 pm

if its the moroso switch make sure its on the right way. Even in the off position the acc will fill, but it cannot release until its activated. If the accumulator is not storing pressure.................in other words when you kill the ign it should hold the press it had at that moment, and only discharge it when you open the valve.

my bet you got the valve on backwards......................
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  Victor L on October 30th 2012, 4:28 pm

I will try firing the engine while simultaneously opening the accumulator.
The accumulator has no problem holding pressure when not in use. The hose running from the solenoid to the engine is open to the oil galley, so it is not pressurized while the engine is not running.
Does the concern of air being trapped in the line, with the possibility of the air being fed to the engine/bearings, in the event of oil starvation sound viable to you?

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  bbf-falcon on October 30th 2012, 6:34 pm

Like Jon has stated,the accumulator must be charged w/pressure while the engine is not running,and it will fill to capacity by your oil pump at startup.I installed a manual shutoff on mine between the block and the solenoid valve for maintenance purposes. Fill your engine 3qts overfull,so when the engine starts it will fill the tank.Then when you shut the engine off ,the solenoid will close and trap the oil in the resevoir tank. Before you engage the starter turn on the ign. switch momentarily and watch your oil pressure gauge and it will shootup pressure and fill your oil passage ways in the block, Now you are ready to fire the primed engine.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  richter69 on October 30th 2012, 7:26 pm

mine is on the ign switch, i do have a toggle so i can disable it incase i need ign on for datalogger etc and not loose the charge. usually has 60 psi in it as my junk has a killer belt pump and idles high or ill click the motor off at the stripe.

how much press does yours have when you shut it down?
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  David Cole on October 30th 2012, 7:45 pm

How much air pressure is in the accumulator on the other side of the piston from the oil?

With switch on (elec valve open) I charge it with 100 psi or so from shop compressor so it moves the piston all the way to one end. Then bleed the air pressure down to 6-7 psi. Use a low pressure tire gauge once it's below 10-12. Change oil, filter. Put in entire amount of oil. 9 qts in my case. Crank it. I always have plenty of pressure at the gauge first thing. It's plumbed in above the filter.

The orifice on the electric valve is designed so it flows much faster in one direction than the other. It can dump the whole thing in few seconds, but if you watch the gauge you'll see it takes 3-4 times as long to fill it. So....if the electric valve is in the right direction you don't to worry about it starving the bearings while the accumulator fills.

Mine is tied into the ignition. No other switch, but I did wire it with a weatherpack connector. Quick to unplug if need the ignition on but want to save the prime for startup.
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  Victor L on October 30th 2012, 10:19 pm

If the engine is shut off, or the solenoid is closed, by turning the switch off, the pressure in the accumulator will stay at the same pressure the oil gauge was reading at shut down. Usually about 60 psi. The engine oil pressure will fluctuate due to engine temperature, and idle rpm.
The next time I go to start the car, the accumulator will still read the same pressure, say 60 psi or so.
If I use the accumulator to pre oil the engine, the oil gauge will only go up to about 20 psi, then quickly drop. It then takes a lot of starter cranking to build oil pressure. Building oil pressure with the starter happens much quicker if I leave the solenoid closed. This may be the normal character of an accumulator and solenoid mounted in the trunk.
************************************************************************
The concern is, could the oil in the line, drain into the engine leaving an air pocket that could be pushed through the oil system when the accumulator is trying to do its job?
Do other people plumb their accumulator directly to the oil galley, and have success doing so?

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  LivermoreDave on October 30th 2012, 10:40 pm

Unless the rules you race prohibit the installation inside the driver's compartment, here's my take! Mount the Accusump along side the driver's seat or in driver's reach. Install a manual valve (open/close) in conjunction with the oil line connected to the engine. Install a pressure gauge on the opposite end of the Accusump if a port is available. Also you can install a bleeder valve (of sorts) between the gauge and the Accusump canister, to bleed the canister occasionally. Open the valve before cranking the engine and close the valve before turning the engine off. Another idea if I may. Make a "T" connection in the oil line from the Accusump. Insert the "T" connection about half the distance of the front oil pressure tap (above fuel pump) and the rear top oil pressure tap. This will allow the incoming oil from the Accusump to be distributed more evenly.

Just my 2 cents,
Dave.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  Victor L on October 30th 2012, 10:56 pm

Thank you for the advice.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  richter69 on October 30th 2012, 11:49 pm

after you hit the switch and the accumulator primes the eng just start it up, its gonna take forever for the pump to fill the accumulator just by cranking it.

with the deal in the trunk its gonna take forever to fill also.....

I think your making it harder than it really is.
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  LivermoreDave on October 31st 2012, 6:47 am

richter69 wrote:with the deal in the trunk its gonna take forever to fill also.

I concur... Rolling Eyes ...

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  bbf-falcon on October 31st 2012, 11:46 am

richter69 wrote:after you hit the switch and the accumulator primes the eng just start it up, its gonna take forever for the pump to fill the accumulator just by cranking it.

with the deal in the trunk its gonna take forever to fill also.....

I think your making it harder than it really is.
X2.And another thing,the canaster should be at a slight down grade to make sure all the oil is pushed out when switch is turned on. You can see mine in my grill in my Avatar,the discharge is lower.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  richter69 on October 31st 2012, 11:51 am

Mine sits horizontal where the wiper motor used to be in the cowl, the -10 hose is only 3' long at the most.
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  Victor L on October 31st 2012, 4:38 pm

Ok, very simple to understand now. The accumulator will purge the line, just before start up. And it will be ready to do its job on demand. Thanks for all the help.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  richter69 on October 31st 2012, 4:41 pm

I start mine as soon as I hit the switch, it doesnt need to empty itself to be effective.
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  Diddly on October 31st 2012, 7:07 pm

I turn mine on to prime, once I see oil pressure on the gauge I turn the solenoid off (closed) and start the engine, takes much less time to build/maintain pressure that way on initial start up, once engine is running and up to operating pressure I flip the switch to refill the accumulator. Right or wrong that's been working for me.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  LivermoreDave on October 31st 2012, 10:34 pm

Victor L wrote:Ok, very simple to understand now. The accumulator will purge the line, just before start up. And it will be ready to do its job on demand. Thanks for all the help.

The Accusump is simply a reserve. If the control valve attached to the Accusump is open during engine operation, the engine's oil will flow to the Accusump under the engine's oil pressure and maintain the same pressure as the engine after the Accusump's dynamic volume is fulfilled. If the engine's oil pressure drops, the oil in the Accusump will flow toward the engine (i.e: path of least resistance) and visa versa! Now to the "pre-lube". Engine is off and the Accusump control valve has been closed before the engine is shut off. The Accusump should contain the oil under pressure at the time the valve was closed. Before cranking the engine to start, open the Accusump's control valve and allow the oil to flow into the engine from stored pressure in the Accusump, aka, a pre-oiler.

As far as purging the line. If the Accusump is mounted higher than the engine's oil connections, some although very little oil may leave the line unless air is inserted into the system, or vacuum is eliminated. The old dip the straw into the glass of water, place your finger over the straw's end and pull the straw from the glass! The water will remain in the straw until you remove your finger from the end of the straw!

It's really a simple yet very effective means of insuring oil to the engine when the oil pump can't pump oil from the pan, regardless of the reason!

Dave.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  Dave C. on May 16th 2014, 9:07 am

Per the installation instructions they show a one-way check valve upstream from the accumulator and its all tied together with a T fitting.

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  windsor on December 31st 2014, 4:31 pm

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  bbf-falcon on December 31st 2014, 5:06 pm

Suspect

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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  DFI429 on December 31st 2014, 5:55 pm

The quick road course footage is from Lime Rock Park.. nice track in NW Connecticut.  That was the 180* turn at the end of the main straight.  Makes for some excursions from time to time Wink
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  BOSS 429 on December 31st 2014, 6:14 pm

I didn't read all or every post,but you have it plumbed wrong to start with
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  BOSS 429 on December 31st 2014, 6:19 pm

LivermoreDave wrote:Unless the rules you race prohibit the installation inside the driver's compartment, here's my take! Mount the Accusump along side the driver's seat or in driver's reach. Install a manual valve (open/close) in conjunction with the oil line connected to the engine. Install a pressure gauge on the opposite end of the Accusump if a port is available. Also you can install a bleeder valve (of sorts) between the gauge and the Accusump canister, to bleed the canister occasionally. Open the valve before cranking the engine and close the valve before turning the engine off. Another idea if I may. Make a "T" connection in the oil line from the Accusump. Insert the "T" connection about half the distance of the front oil pressure tap (above fuel pump) and the rear top oil pressure tap. This will allow the incoming oil from the Accusump to be distributed more evenly.

Just my 2 cents,
Dave.



It is not legal to mount acc in a pass compartment,must be out by engine,or in truck of said car,I use to mount mine in the cowel.
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Re: Accumulator Tech.

Post  BOSS 429 on December 31st 2014, 6:20 pm

your t idea is not a good one
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