Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

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Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 23rd 2012, 9:17 pm

What is available for an 8-71 roots stlye blower using A-Heads?

Was Looking at Don Hampton Blowers any other suggestions?

Also who would be the best choice for cam help with a blower setup?

Thanks Cool

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  res0rli9 on November 23rd 2012, 9:41 pm

Don Hampton is the Man Smile

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  66prostreetfairlane on November 24th 2012, 7:39 pm

Another Hampton customer here...good service. I will say on my particular build he didn't even think the intake would work. It took a lot of investigating on my own. We actually had to go through BDS for a new crank spacer. Hampton has good customer service, but other than the blower case most of my stuff came from BDS with Hampton then selling it to me to make the Boss kit. If you have the extra coin the blower shop makes billet cases that are show quality pieces. We have a friend that bought an 8-71 kit from the blower shop, billet case for a 426 Hemi Mopar deal and it's really a nice piece.

Don
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  c.evans on November 24th 2012, 8:29 pm

HELI-ARC wrote:What is available for an 8-71 roots stlye blower using A-Heads?

Was Looking at Don Hampton Blowers any other suggestions?

Also who would be the best choice for cam help with a blower setup?

Thanks Cool

Be advised that there is no commercially available blower intake for the A-460 heads. What most shops do is buy the TFS tunnel ram and rework it in order to take a blower case. The problem is that it makes for a very long blower belt because it sets up so high. Long blower belts need the idler to the outside of the blower belt, in order to help reduce the belt "going centrifugal". At high rpms, they tend to pull the crankshaft snout up, and the blower drive snout down. Often times breaking one or the other.

Hope this helps,
Charlie

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  dfree383 on November 25th 2012, 12:09 am

Hogans makes custom blower manifolds, not cheap but could help with the problem Charlie is describing.
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  David Cole on November 25th 2012, 12:24 pm

Price Motorsports lists a set of adapters to use a regular SCJ intake with A460 heads. Perhaps you could use these with one of the available std blower intakes and the A heads.

http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_ap-11__intake_adapter_kit.html
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  c.evans on November 25th 2012, 1:48 pm

David Cole wrote:Price Motorsports lists a set of adapters to use a regular SCJ intake with A460 heads. Perhaps you could use these with one of the available std blower intakes and the A heads.

http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_ap-11__intake_adapter_kit.html

We (Lem, Jet Boat Bob and myself) used those Price manifold adapters for that very reason. We also used the Blue Thunder CJ blower manifold on TFS A-460 heads, for a pump gas boat engine that we built. It worked out okay and the boat cruises on Kentucky Lake.

Charlie

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  QtrWarrior on November 25th 2012, 5:39 pm

c.evans wrote:
David Cole wrote:Price Motorsports lists a set of adapters to use a regular SCJ intake with A460 heads. Perhaps you could use these with one of the available std blower intakes and the A heads.

http://www.pricemotorsport.com/html/body_ap-11__intake_adapter_kit.html

We (Lem, Jet Boat Bob and myself) used those Price manifold adapters for that very reason. We also used the Blue Thunder CJ blower manifold on TFS A-460 heads, for a pump gas boat engine that we built. It worked out okay and the boat cruises on Kentucky Lake.

Charlie

HMMM..I have one of those manifolds... Cool
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 25th 2012, 9:07 pm


Mike.....Do we need to talk about that manifold you have? Very Happy

Charlie.... What did you mean the manifold worked out ok? Would you do it again or is there a better route to follow?

Thanks to all the others that posted, as it turns out a guy can learn more from asking questions than anything the search engines show you!

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  c.evans on November 25th 2012, 9:16 pm

HELI-ARC wrote:
Mike.....Do we need to talk about that manifold you have? Very Happy

Charlie.... What did you mean the manifold worked out ok? Would you do it again or is there a better route to follow?

Thanks to all the others that posted, as it turns out a guy can learn more from asking questions than anything the search engines show you!

By worked out okay, I meant that we had to do some elongating of the bolt holes, but that is pretty common and is a function of the block deck height, how much the heads have been milled and etc. I also did some port matching between the plates and the heads, and then between the adapter plates and the manifold. Distributor clearance was a problem and we ended up using a small cap Mallory unit and still had to grind on it quite a bit, so be prepared to run into a problem there. The engine made good power on the dyno and came off clean and dry, but then the customer's fuel system, pump, line sizes and etc., where not up to snuff in the boat.

Charlie

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  QtrWarrior on November 25th 2012, 9:44 pm

HELI-ARC wrote:
Mike.....Do we need to talk about that manifold you have? Very Happy

Charlie.... What did you mean the manifold worked out ok? Would you do it again or is there a better route to follow?

Thanks to all the others that posted, as it turns out a guy can learn more from asking questions than anything the search engines show you!


It can be had, if you want it... It's just collecting dust here.. Very Happy
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  Lem Evans on November 25th 2012, 9:45 pm

I don't remember the episode the way Charlie does but, the spacers can be made to work.

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 26th 2012, 10:09 pm

Charlie

Gotta pick on your experience some more. The info I have found shows the Blue Thunder intake to be 6.9" tall and the TFS tunnel ram to be 10.5" tall. Price spacers appear to add 3/4 to 1" of additional height. If a guy uses a 1/2" plate to adapt the blower to the tunnel ram. Is 3.1" of additional height going to make the belt "go centrifical" when we are already that tall? Also do you feel there is room to cut the tunnel ram down to get rid of some height and be closer to the height of the Blue Thunder combo?

Thanks

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  c.evans on November 27th 2012, 2:43 am

I guess it all depends on how much of a race engine this is going to be. If it is a pump gas day cruiser, and you aren't planning on turning a lot of rpm, or creating a lot of boost,,,then you can tolerate some potential problems.

Yes, the additional 3.1" in height is bad, because your belt is going to be at least 6.2" longer. The longer the belt is, the heavier it is and the more it has a tendency to go into a round shape or pathway at high rpm. That's what I meant by "going centrifugal".

Of the three popular big block engines, the Ford crankshaft snout diameter is the smallest, the 426 Chrysler is a good bit bigger and then the BB Chevy is the biggest. Because of the Ford snout diameter being the smallest, when you build an all out blown Ford race engine and have a billet crank made, people like Carroll Carter will go ahead and have them made with the BB Chevy snout diameter. And for that reason, C&C Motorsports sells Ford lower timing gears with the i.d. bored out to the Chevy dimension.

Yes, the TFS tunnel ram is heavy enough and certainly strong enough to have the plenum height milled down approximately 1.5". Your blower base plate will then need to be welded on, and I suggest that you use at least a 5/8" thick plate. It is critical that after all the welding and machining that the entire blower base plate be milled and dressed perfectly flat, so you will lose some of that thickness. A check should be made after the manifold is bolted up and torqued to the heads, that the blower base plate is absolutely parallel to the crankshaft centerline.

At the end of the day, in regards to the decision on manifolds, I'd follow my engine builders advice and hopefully he has some experience with blown engines.

Hope this helps,

Charlie Evans

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 27th 2012, 8:30 am

Now that I have had so much input. Here is the motor combo and expectations, lets see if this thing is still headed in the right direction.

533 combo... Eagle steel crank & rods
Diamond Pistons, approx 11:1 compression
TFS A-460 heads
Roller cam as required
7000 rpm ish
Dove block, Short filled, splayed caps on center 3
* seriously thinking of going to a a-460 block *
8-71 blower, non striped
10 to 15 psi boost
Pro systems carbs for alcohal or e-89
Very limited street use (short 5 mile cruise)
Mostly Drag racing, 300'

Looking to be in the 1300 to 1400 hp area

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  dfree383 on November 27th 2012, 8:51 am

HELI-ARC wrote:Now that I have had so much input. Here is the motor combo and expectations, lets see if this thing is still headed in the right direction.

533 combo... Eagle steel crank & rods
Diamond Pistons, approx 11:1 compression
TFS A-460 heads
Roller cam as required
7000 rpm ish
Dove block, Short filled, splayed caps on center 3
* seriously thinking of going to a a-460 block *
8-71 blower, non striped
10 to 15 psi boost
Pro systems carbs for alcohal or e-89
Very limited street use (short 5 mile cruise)
Mostly Drag racing, 300'

Looking to be in the 1300 to 1400 hp area
Im thinking a 8-71 is going to be to small to get what your after. I'd also seriously consider Injecting it.
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 27th 2012, 10:58 am

Dont have the blower yet. Is a 10-71 more in line for this application?

Are you thinking more like an Enderle injector? I was thinking carbs for two reasons, I really dont want the fuel tank in the front, and in speaking with Pat @ Pro System he felt that he could give us more performance than the injector could.

Willing to learn, and greatly appreciate the help! Just want to understand what you telling me.

Thanks

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  dfree383 on November 27th 2012, 11:04 am

The bigger the blower the better at the boost your wanting, it keeps the heat down.

I don't believe a 8-71 will support that kind of power on 533 inch's without being substantial overdriven.

and carbs will have a tough time moving enough fuel for 1400-1500 hp on Alky.
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  c.evans on November 27th 2012, 7:46 pm

I don't mean to offend, but I really wish you would get a professional engine builder. This engine should not be "built by committee" by coming on here and asking for opinions. IMO there are some things you are overlooking. What piston pin are you going to use with those Diamond pistons? What wall thickness? What ring package? What fuel pump? The list goes on with things such as camshaft specs and etc..

I'd move away from the Eagle crankshaft and get one from A. W. Brown at Performance Crankshaft in Detriot, that way he can do a double keyway for you. Have you thought about that?

Charlie

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  top1209 on November 27th 2012, 8:24 pm

Very good advice Charlie

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 27th 2012, 8:53 pm

I totally agree built by commitee never turns out well. But learning from others experience and knowledge is how we all excel, and what this forum survives on. Yes I am very aware of all the items you mentioned and many more. As it turns out Don Hampton does make a manifold for the A heads ready to go. I would still build this engine myself even if there was a good engine builder close by, which there is not. We have all been at the track and beat the guy who has the best of everything and is only smart enough to throw his wallet at it. Thank you very much for your time and knowledge you shared. No offence taken.

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  res0rli9 on November 27th 2012, 11:07 pm

HELI-ARC wrote:I totally agree built by commitee never turns out well. But learning from others experience and knowledge is how we all excel, and what this forum survives on. Yes I am very aware of all the items you mentioned and many more. As it turns out Don Hampton does make a [/b[b]]manifold for the A heads ready to go. I would still build this engine myself even if there was a good engine builder close by, which there is not. We have all been at the track and beat the guy who has the best of everything and is only smart enough to throw his wallet at it. Thank you very much for your time and knowledge you shared. No offence taken.

Can you get pic of Don's intake & $, and how tall is it.

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  66prostreetfairlane on November 27th 2012, 11:17 pm

res0rli9 wrote:
HELI-ARC wrote:I totally agree built by commitee never turns out well. But learning from others experience and knowledge is how we all excel, and what this forum survives on. Yes I am very aware of all the items you mentioned and many more. As it turns out Don Hampton does make a [/b[b]]manifold for the A heads ready to go. I would still build this engine myself even if there was a good engine builder close by, which there is not. We have all been at the track and beat the guy who has the best of everything and is only smart enough to throw his wallet at it. Thank you very much for your time and knowledge you shared. No offence taken.

Can you get pic of Don's intake & $, and how tall is it.

my guess is he is talking about the conventional 429-460 intake
prices from hampton's site
FORD
221, 260, 289, 302.............................................1125.00
351 Cleveland or Windsor................................1125.00
332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 427, 428.....................1200.00
302, 351, 429 Boss Motors................................950.00
429, 460.............................................................1050.00
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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  HELI-ARC on November 28th 2012, 7:54 am

In speaking with Don. The intake is 10 1/4" tall, show polished, $1500.00. It is not listed on his website and he is working on getting me some picutres. He is very helpful, and seemed to know exactly what "A" heads are. So when I get the rest of the info, I will pass it along. Cool

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Re: Blower intake for TFS-A Heads

Post  top1209 on November 28th 2012, 10:52 am

I have talked to mr Hampton he offers for the ahead a trickflow tunnel ram with the plenum milled down then he welds a plate to the intake. Nice setup it just make for a tall blower. It also is alot cheaper than the alternative which is a $3000 or better sheet metal intake.

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