SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

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SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  bosshoss on November 24th 2012, 1:11 pm

So I am hearing that all of the old raw forgings that Bryant acquired from SVO when they stopped selling them are now gone. That leaves a bit of a gap between the Scat forging and a custom billet in the BBF crankshaft world dont you think?

What kind of investment, engineering support, etc would be required to get 5 or 10 thousand new high quality raw forgings done?

Anybody know anybody that knows anybody???

dkp

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Paul Kane on November 24th 2012, 3:48 pm

bosshoss wrote:So I am hearing that all of the old raw forgings that Bryant acquired from SVO when they stopped selling them are now gone. That leaves a bit of a gap between the Scat forging and a custom billet in the BBF crankshaft world dont you think?

What kind of investment, engineering support, etc would be required to get 5 or 10 thousand new high quality raw forgings done?

Anybody know anybody that knows anybody???

dkp

Yes, Bryant is saying that their claimed "lifetime supply" of Ford's SVO AMS 6415 chromoly raw forgings is exhausted. There is very little from the 2012 calendar year that shocked me more than this specific info.

I was in possession of one of these raw forgings until just a couple of months ago; I'm happy that the new owner took it straight to Crower and had them whittle out a really nice 4.500" stroke crankshaft from it.

Based on what I know about current stateside american steel mills and forging capabilities, I estimate that 10,000 new american raw forgings of AMS 6415 for a 385 Series might cost as perhaps a quarter-million dollars to manufacture (this is a very rough estimate), that's a pretty big investment for a slow moving, very long-term return.

I might know where there's a small stash of the SVO raw forgings but haven't investigated this yet.

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Bret Powell on November 24th 2012, 8:51 pm

Sounds like Bryant was able to sell a heck of lot more Ford cranks than they ever anticipated. I'd think that would indicate a potentially larger market than many have thought. Especially since Bryant offered custom forgings at the speed of iced molasses.

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  c.evans on November 24th 2012, 11:53 pm

At one time, Carroll Carter told me that Bryant and Crower got them all when Ford sold/deleted them from inventory. If Bryant is out of them, I wonder if Crower still has some?

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Paul Kane on November 25th 2012, 12:31 am

I inquired with Crower in a roundabout way and was told they haven't had any of the SVO raw forgings for quite some time. Bryant definitely got the lion's share of them when Ford elected to move them.

Crower still can and still will make billet 385 Series crankshafts. As an "off topic," they also still get raw 4340 forgings for BBC and BBM from a foundry in Fontana, CA. This foundry is not making 385 Series raw forgings nor do I believe the foundry to be tooled to do so (no dies for the engine platform's crankshaft configuration).

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  DanH on November 25th 2012, 4:50 am

one time some was or going to have one forging that could make either BBC or BBF crank

can't remember who or if they ever did

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  D-CEL on December 11th 2012, 2:14 pm

Does anybody know the where-abouts of the Original Ford Forging dies?
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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  c.evans on December 11th 2012, 3:48 pm

I think years ago, that Gary Blair said they were destroyed, and they were originally done at Louisville Forging.

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  D-CEL on December 12th 2012, 11:44 am

Hey Charlie,

Destroyed? LOL I would be suprised if they were. My experience with the forge guys ("they are all criminals" as one of my Aero-Eng reps always says) is that they throw nothing away. Typically they grind off the orig owners markings and put them on a rack, way up high for a bunch of years.
Was it Louisville Forge and Gear Works in George Town?

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Lem Evans on December 12th 2012, 12:10 pm

D-CEL wrote:Hey Charlie,

Destroyed? LOL I would be suprised if they were. My experience with the forge guys ("they are all criminals" as one of my Aero-Eng reps always says) is that they throw nothing away. Typically they grind off the orig owners markings and put them on a rack, way up high for a bunch of years.
Was it Louisville Forge and Gear Works in George Town?

Jason

I've been told that they moved out of L'ville.......could be G'town now.

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Forgings

Post  Gary Blair on December 13th 2012, 7:56 pm

I've heard several accounts of the location of the dies. One was a Michigan supplier to Ford with a German name. From there it was reported that were destroyed. Can't recall the name though. Then there was talk of Louiville doing some but the cost was a problem.

Louiville does OE and race stuff, notably Callies, but no BBF planned. Crower is out of the forgings too.

You would think that the major Crank shops could use a new run of forgings. Possibly Bryant, Scat, Crower, or others.
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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Wheelie58 on December 14th 2012, 1:36 am

I was telling Ted about this string and he sadly validated it today when he called to order a couple of 4.5 Bryants.
Hard to believe that the dies are really gone.
Makes me wonder if Ford thinks that this will make us ditch the 429-460 and embrace the 4.6/5.4 platform. (Not!) the Mod Motors are great, but try to build a 10 or 11 liter one.
We will have to look at Bryant's "no frills" billet option...
Thanks
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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Bret Powell on December 14th 2012, 9:30 am

You might consider a Winberg!

http://www.winbergcrankshafts.com/

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  BigDave65 on December 19th 2012, 12:00 pm

They are not ALL gone! I know where one is. Very Happy
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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  rmcomprandy on December 19th 2012, 1:55 pm

That is a perfect example of how much credence the aftermarket shows for the Big Block Ford ... a "Lifetime Supply", eh ...?

That holds true for a lot of the other parts for the Big Block Ford that the aftermarket companies say there is no "call for".
RIGHT, you bet.

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  466cj on December 19th 2012, 10:44 pm

Someone has to put the money out to make these things happen. If they don't see a market that will provide a timely return on the investment they are not going to do it. Hopefully AFR will follow thru with their heads and intakes. If they do well perhaps it may make other mfgrs. give the 385 series a second thought.

The only other way is to get enough guys to put up money to cover tooling and an initial run.

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  Lem Evans on December 19th 2012, 10:52 pm

"The only other way is to get enough guys to put up money to cover tooling and an initial run."

And, after 3-5 years the deal has not happened and there is a lawsuit from hell.

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Re: SVO Crank Forgings all gone?

Post  466cj on December 20th 2012, 2:10 am

Lem Evans wrote:"The only other way is to get enough guys to put up money to cover tooling and an initial run."

And, after 3-5 years the deal has not happened and there is a lawsuit from hell.

Yes that would be one possible outcome... nobody ever said it was a perfect solution.

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