a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

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a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  hbstang on December 3rd 2012, 10:29 pm

this is a 3 part question.first,what is the differences between the original a441 boss heads and the newer c and c motorsports heads?

second part which head would be the better head for a 604 ci combo that could be street driven,but still pull over 900 hp and have the reliability,and live good on the street,and still deliver low 9s in a 64 fairlane that is built to handle it?also including the kaase boss 9 heads as well.i know the kaase heads may be more practical for what i want.
as it is now,i have the C and C motorsports that have been cnc ported.all this would be with a single 4 intake and 11-1 or so compression.

part 3 would either the kaase head fully ported or the c and c ms head make 900 plu hp with 10-1 comp.?with a cam ground to this combo?
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  dfree383 on December 3rd 2012, 10:55 pm

I've made 700+ with 432" with Kaase heads at 11.5:1... So 900 with 600" is definetly doable.
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  schmitty on December 3rd 2012, 11:12 pm

IIRC didn't Jon's Boss Stang have 900hp or so with his heads and like 580ci? He said it was way more than a handfull to drive on the street. Cool
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  c.evans on December 3rd 2012, 11:37 pm

1. The current C&C Motorsports A-441 heads are an upgrade over the original A-441 heads. There are small improvements in several areas. Jim Brown out of St. Louis is running a set on his NMRA Mustang now with a Pro-Charger.

2. The C&C Motorsports A-441 Hemi heads would be the better head to run in terms of making horsepower. As compared to the Kaase Boss Nine heads the ports are raised, and that is often the key factor in determining which head can make the most power. Jon Kaase told us at the Winter Tech Seminar in Owensboro, KY,,,,that he decided to keep the ports in the stock factory production location,,,,,,in order for his head to be more of a replacement or replica head.

So keep your current CNC ported A-441 heads,,,,and as you know C&C Motorsports makes a single four intake manifold for those heads.

3. Yes, the C&C Motorsports A-441 Hemi heads should make 900 Hp on pump gas and even more, all depending on the size of the engine. Also at one place you mentioned 11:1 compression ratio, and in another you mentioned 10:1 compression ratio, so I'm a little confused as to what you want.

Uncle Charlie

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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  BOSS 429 on December 3rd 2012, 11:47 pm

[quote="hbstang"]this is a 3 part question.first,what is the differences between the original a441 boss heads and the newer c and c motorsports heads?

second part which head would be the better head for a 604 ci combo that could be street driven,but still pull over 900 hp and have the reliability,and live good on the street,and still deliver low 9s in a 64 fairlane that is built to handle it?also including the kaase boss 9 heads as well.i know the kaase heads may be more practical for what i want.
as it is now,i have the C and C motorsports that have been cnc ported.all this would be with a single 4 intake and 11-1 or so compression.

part 3 would either the kaase head fully ported or the c and c ms head make 900 plu hp with 10-1 comp.?with a cam ground to this combo?[/quote

-----------------------------------------

The C and C 4V INTAKE is rasied (taller) over the org A441 head, which is also the diff in the a441 to the c and c a441's. Your a441s can make over 900 on 92oct, if do search on here (CIRCLE R) youll find one thats over 900hp


-Rich
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  JBR-3 on December 4th 2012, 3:21 pm

There are also some differences in the rocker gear.

The original A441 had the same rockerpad/angles as the OE head. The same rockers could be used on either. I'm not sure if Eric's TM heads use the OE rockers, I think so.
Kaase's heads use a different rocker & geometry than OE, I'm not sure if it is unique,
or similar to Jesel, or......?
The C and C heads are different from OE. Again, are they unique or same as Kaase, etc.,or....?

In this post I'm not stating which rocker system might be better, only which are different,
for purposes of interchangability.

Rich,
When you say the C&C intake is taller, do you mean the port or the manifold ?
The "common" A441 head is 4.25 inches from deck to valve cover surface, this is the same
as the OE head. Is the C&C head taller ? This would be about the only way for the
intake port to be higher than the A441. I have a set of Glidden high port "A441's" which
are 1/2" taller from deck to valve cover, and the intake port is raised.

Hope all this helps.

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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  hbstang on December 4th 2012, 7:09 pm

c.evans wrote:1. The current C&C Motorsports A-441 heads are an upgrade over the original A-441 heads. There are small improvements in several areas. Jim Brown out of St. Louis is running a set on his NMRA Mustang now with a Pro-Charger.

2. The C&C Motorsports A-441 Hemi heads would be the better head to run in terms of making horsepower. As compared to the Kaase Boss Nine heads the ports are raised, and that is often the key factor in determining which head can make the most power. Jon Kaase told us at the Winter Tech Seminar in Owensboro, KY,,,,that he decided to keep the ports in the stock factory production location,,,,,,in order for his head to be more of a replacement or replica head.

So keep your current CNC ported A-441 heads,,,,and as you know C&C Motorsports makes a single four intake manifold for those heads.

3. Yes, the C&C Motorsports A-441 Hemi heads should make 900 Hp on pump gas and even more, all depending on the size of the engine. Also at one place you mentioned 11:1 compression ratio, and in another you mentioned 10:1 compression ratio, so I'm a little confused as to what you want.

Uncle Charlie


thank you guys for all the quick replies
let me clarify on the comp ratio.the pistons i have are 33 cc dish giving about 9.8-1 compression with the c and c motorsports heads i have.short block is not assembled at this time,so i can change pistons and bump the comp to 11-1 or so and still use pump gas with a small mix of race gas.is this enough jump in comp to make much of a difference in over all power etc? from what c.evans is telling me,i will stay with the heads i have.they are complete cnc ported,with all ti valves and jessel rockers.
also,i have the c and c single 4 intake already and it is very tall! heavy to.dan.
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  levy87 on December 4th 2012, 8:48 pm

BBF brother let's see some pic's of the good's,the head's,manifold,jesel rocker's,please can we see.Dan. Very Happy
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some pictures

Post  hbstang on December 4th 2012, 9:02 pm

i bought this from guy who gave up on project.



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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  BOSS 429 on December 4th 2012, 10:13 pm

JBR-3 wrote:There are also some differences in the rocker gear.

The original A441 had the same rockerpad/angles as the OE head. The same rockers could be used on either. I'm not sure if Eric's TM heads use the OE rockers, I think so.
Kaase's heads use a different rocker & geometry than OE, I'm not sure if it is unique,
or similar to Jesel, or......?
The C and C heads are different from OE. Again, are they unique or same as Kaase, etc.,or....?

In this post I'm not stating which rocker system might be better, only which are different,
for purposes of interchangability.

Rich,
When you say the C&C intake is taller, do you mean the port or the manifold ?
The "common" A441 head is 4.25 inches from deck to valve cover surface, this is the same
as the OE head. Is the C&C head taller ? This would be about the only way for the
intake port to be higher than the A441. I have a set of Glidden high port "A441's" which
are 1/2" taller from deck to valve cover, and the intake port is raised.

Hope all this helps.

------------
yes sir jb,the intake port is raised on the c and c head

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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  LivermoreDave on December 4th 2012, 10:16 pm

hbstang wrote:

I don't know about the rest of you bitches, but that's a damn nice looking piece Shocked if it never runs!

Dave.

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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  66prostreetfairlane on December 4th 2012, 11:19 pm

As a compare and contrast i have posted kaase boss 9's after his three pics.




---------BREAK----------



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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  c.evans on December 5th 2012, 12:22 am

Dan,

You're setting on a gold mine. Your heads are fine, especially with the titanium valves and Jesel rocker arm system. Likewise your intake manifold is fine. You have a good combo and if your want to do anything at all, then like you said in your last post, just change out the pistons and up the compression ratio a little bit. A move from 9.8:1 compression to 11:1 compression will be a big move in terms of torque and horsepower. It is the most beneficial change you can make.

Charlie Evans

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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  levy87 on December 5th 2012, 6:36 am

Absolutley Awesome.Very nice Dan.By the way i am also Dan. Very Happy
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  dfree383 on December 5th 2012, 7:19 am

hbstang wrote:i bought this from guy who gave up on project.




Shazam !! Whoop Whoop !!! Thats a Sexy MF'r....... santa
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Re: a441 vs cnc boss429 vs kaase b9 heads

Post  hbstang on December 5th 2012, 11:53 pm

c.evans wrote:Dan,

You're setting on a gold mine. Your heads are fine, especially with the titanium valves and Jesel rocker arm system. Likewise your intake manifold is fine. You have a good combo and if your want to do anything at all, then like you said in your last post, just change out the pistons and up the compression ratio a little bit. A move from 9.8:1 compression to 11:1 compression will be a big move in terms of torque and horsepower. It is the most beneficial change you can make.

Charlie Evans

thank you all for this great feedback.i have full confidence now to move forward with this.i will look at the cam that came with this later,but first to finish the short block.it is not assembled,and will need new pistons.also,i was thinking Very Happy to use an external wet sump oil pump to take some load off the cam gear.dan.
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A441 Hands Down

Post  mkopmani on December 7th 2012, 10:31 pm

The A441 heads are the ticket. I have a set on a 500" NHRA motor with Enderle injection making 1100hp. Bump your compression up as otherwise it will be lazy. Do what you like regarding pump gas and compression, but are you really going to drive it that much that you can't afford to put high octane fuel in an expensive motor?? Compression makes both torque and horsepower - linear gains. It also gives you bottom end torque when running a higher duration cam, provides throttle response, stronger carb signal, etc, etc. If it's going to see street duty, that's a good reason to limit it down to 12.5:1 or so for overheating, but that's about it.

The A441 intake is super compared to the original Boss or the Kaase heads. Jon went for the wider market which was to keep them factory, but the Boss stock intake port is way too low - sort of a turd compared to some of the great wedge heads out there now - C460, A460's.

Have fun with it!

Mike

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