KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  cool40 on December 14th 2012, 9:00 pm

great info Keith! i did some track testing with timing on my 526 with alky.i started at 32* to get the fuel tuned in and ended up backing the timing up,just did it without checking with a light.it picked up a tenth at the track just backing the timing up.after i got home i checked it with a light and it was 24* Shocked after some thought and advice from a few folks i put more fuel in it and went back up on the timing.next tnt it was slow and sounded "fat" so i pulled some fuel and even worked on the h/s a little.nothing helped the et's much so i did the timing drop again and got the tenth back the next pass Laughing i did'nt run my 605 enough to tune on it but i figure it'll like 30*or less with alky Question
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  70FB on December 14th 2012, 9:44 pm

cool40 wrote:great info Keith! i did some track testing with timing on my 526 with alky.i started at 32* to get the fuel tuned in and ended up backing the timing up,just did it without checking with a light.it picked up a tenth at the track just backing the timing up.after i got home i checked it with a light and it was 24* Shocked after some thought and advice from a few folks i put more fuel in it and went back up on the timing.next tnt it was slow and sounded "fat" so i pulled some fuel and even worked on the h/s a little.nothing helped the et's much so i did the timing drop again and got the tenth back the next pass Laughing i did'nt run my 605 enough to tune on it but i figure it'll like 30*or less with alky Question
Cool40.. stop making me look at alky! Tryn not to go there!
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  cool40 on December 14th 2012, 11:14 pm

70FB wrote:
cool40 wrote:great info Keith! i did some track testing with timing on my 526 with alky.i started at 32* to get the fuel tuned in and ended up backing the timing up,just did it without checking with a light.it picked up a tenth at the track just backing the timing up.after i got home i checked it with a light and it was 24* Shocked after some thought and advice from a few folks i put more fuel in it and went back up on the timing.next tnt it was slow and sounded "fat" so i pulled some fuel and even worked on the h/s a little.nothing helped the et's much so i did the timing drop again and got the tenth back the next pass Laughing i did'nt run my 605 enough to tune on it but i figure it'll like 30*or less with alky Question
Cool40.. stop making me look at alky! Tryn not to go there!
it aint worth it Cool
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  richter69 on December 14th 2012, 11:31 pm

just depends on what you wanna do.....
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  56Tbird on December 15th 2012, 12:47 am

richter69 wrote:just depends on what you wanna do.....
I like winning races,that's why I choose alky Laughing Heads Up ,Brackets,Index....Whatever,I've won them all on alky. I'm sure I could win them on gas too Twisted Evil But ,I like alkyhaul Rolling Eyes drunken king
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  56Tbird on December 15th 2012, 12:48 am

Great #'s Keith .You da man cheers
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 15th 2012, 1:24 am

What a day....
Ran to Barnett Performance and got a new Moroso 22642 vacuum pump, installed it and my vacuum readings were much better. Kept playing with timing (as reported earlier) and more tweaks to the fuel setup and got it to 1170..1172 HP. I kept shutting it off at about 7600 with power still going up.
After dinner, I decided to get creative. I had two 4" Toilet throttle bodies on this engine that I always ran. I have one 4.10" Toilet that was on my 514, a vintage 5" toilet and a nice new 2100 CFM Terminator all lined up on the bench. I don't have a pair of any of those. So....I grabbed the 4.1 toilet and replaced the front 4" unit.
Made no other changes. It took about 15 minutes to make the swap. The 4.1 is rated at 365 CFM more than the 4" by Ron's. The engine responded with more power through the entire range. After about 5 more pulls to re-adjust the fuel curve, I ended up with 1190 HP at 7600 and my "buddy" Ted decided to run it on up to 7950 just because it sounded good. Shocked It still had about 1181 at 7950 or so... really didn't fall off much. The more we tuned it...pulling fuel away in the higher ranges with the high speeds, the better the vacuum got. The last few pulls were 16 to 17 inches and did not fall off like earler runs. The back-to back pulls let the engine stay at a nice temp and the oil looks really nice. No milky or dilution.
It looks like this thing may want a pair of 4.1" or bigger Toilets. Either way, I know I can get Very Very close to the power levels of the nice race carbs on gasoline.
I know that we all have examples of folks that lost 100 HP...200 HP and so from gas to alky. I can not speak for thier tune up or their persistence. Ted and I made 35 pulls in the last 3 days on the 618. and learned a LOT. I hooked up a new fuel pressure transducer on the dyno that is hooked up to the DEPAC data aquisition system. Without that information, I would still be dicking around at about 1175 HP. It really let me trim the high speed mixture much better.
One observation by Ted, who had run this dyno for many years....
He noticed that the engine had a rate of acceleration noticeably higher (faster) on alky than gas. After a few pulls, he adjusted the load rate to slow the acceleration down, so we analyzed it a little before going home.
The snapshot of 6200 to 7200 RPM roughly averaged a .4 second faster rate of acceleration (seconds per 100 RPM) on alky than gas. This may help explain why a person may change from gas carb to a Flying Toilet on alky and even though he may "lose power" the car will run faster. Just a theory, but it sounded good after a long day of changing bypass jets.
Still far from done, but I am real happy to have "C Head" numbers with my Interceptor/Trick Flow A460 castings. I was going to make a nice billet runner tunnel ram, after seeing how the Trick Flow cast manifold runs, I am not in a big hurry. I called it Carpal Tunnel Ram, since it took 3 whole days to enlarge the ports to match the heads. Hands kept getting numb on the grinder....
Enough typing....
Keith

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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  KY JELLY on December 15th 2012, 6:53 am

Good job Keith . I wish you had some m5 to make a few pulls with that would be interesting.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 15th 2012, 7:41 am

Yeah KY...
I didn't think about that in time. ( M5) My on track experience with the M5 was not impressive. I tried more fuel, less fuel, more timing , less timing and the only difference that I could feel was in my wallet. The smell of the exhaust was fun for a while, but got old after pissing everyone off in the staging lanes.
I know that you and others had seen have seen great results with the M5.
This engine needs to go in the car tomorrow....But I am starting on another sister engine that will be of similar specs, to be finished in April or May 2013. That one will spend more time on the dyno...kind of a mule for testing and a maintenance backup for the base Interceptor 618 that will be in the car.
Thanks,
Keith
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  richter69 on December 15th 2012, 11:44 am

m5 is worth a little, but not a lot. seems when the air was better it helped more, in the summer months not so much.

If I was still n/a the injection would still be on it without a doubt.

nice numbers, cant wait to see how it motors down the track.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  AL Q on December 15th 2012, 1:10 pm

Really nice engine Kieth, those results are impressive! My wish list just got bigger.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Curt on December 15th 2012, 3:48 pm

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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 15th 2012, 5:22 pm

Thanks guys
Just cracked 1201 HP with Toilets and industrial rotgut methanol!
That's it for today.
Gotta visit the wifey...she hasn't seen me since the dyno flog began.
Gots my alky and oil cologne on...
Keith
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Curt on December 15th 2012, 6:08 pm

Wheelie58 wrote:Thanks guys
Just cracked 1201 HP with Toilets and industrial rotgut methanol!
That's it for today.
Gotta visit the wifey...she hasn't seen me since the dyno flog began.
Gots my alky and oil cologne on...
Keith

She's probably going to tell you her rules are the same as the dyno rooms, "Don't come in here thinking you're gonna throw a rod". scratch
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  schmitty on December 15th 2012, 6:37 pm

Keith, I can't thank you enough for sharing all of this info with us. It is good to see guys like you trying something different and doing the home work to make a relavant test. C head power, from a newer A head variant is quite commendable.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  BM2271 on December 15th 2012, 9:19 pm

Keith are you going to test the car at Reynolds? If so do you know when? I'd like to see it make a couple of hits with the new mill. I've run S/St over there a couple of times and know ol Howard Griggs fairly well.

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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 16th 2012, 10:50 am

schmitty wrote:Keith, I can't thank you enough for sharing all of this info with us. It is good to see guys like you trying something different and doing the home work to make a relavant test. C head power, from a newer A head variant is quite commendable.
Well...Schmitty... If you like things that are different, you will love this. I wanted to think "out of the box". I may have fallen out of the box and hit my head...take look.

I pondered this for quite a while before actually doing it, but the engine liked it.
I replace the 4" toilet on the front with a 5" unit.
That got me about 10 HP up high, but freaked me out with 30 more HP at 6200.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  56Tbird on December 16th 2012, 11:10 am

Put another BigAss toilet on the back!!! 1200+HP on Alky........Can't be done is what I heard Razz Cool king
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  richter69 on December 16th 2012, 11:14 am

I had one of them 5" tb's a couple years ago..... sold it to a pullin truck guy.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  BOSS 429 on December 16th 2012, 12:05 pm

Was the first test (dyno pulls ) done @ 800 per sec?
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 16th 2012, 7:24 pm

Boss.
I believe that is factor used by DTS or Superflow. We use a DEPAC system with ADLC for load control.
The acceleration rate was unchanged through all of my gas carb runs and the first several alky pulls until we decided to slow the rate down to match the gas rate. It pulled up quicker with the alky...
Thanks
Keith
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 16th 2012, 9:08 pm


Just put the single carb back on with C14.
It made 1189 at 7510.
So much for that.
Now I gotta put all of the Toilets back on.
Time to get this thing in the car.
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  bruno on December 16th 2012, 9:10 pm

do you think it would make gains in hp/tq department with 2 5" toliets ?
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 16th 2012, 9:13 pm

Ooops
Almost forgot..."pictures or it didn't happen
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Re: KFM 618 A Head - dyno update

Post  Wheelie58 on December 16th 2012, 9:21 pm

bruno wrote:do you think it would make gains in hp/tq department with 2 5" toliets ?
Either twin 5" inchers...or my two 4" plus the one 4.1 on the same manifold.
Tri-power...already mocked up..... Twisted Evil Just need new nozzle lines.
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