Windage tray!!

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  dfree383 on January 3rd 2013, 2:10 am

Mark Miller wrote:Dave,

Thanks for the information i have a D1VE Block.

Later Mark.

Its a bolt on with the proper fastners with a factory crank in a D1 block you'll possibly need to use some washers as spacers of you have a stroker crank.

On an A460 block you need to gut the straps on the tray to clear the center of the main caps.
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  466cj on January 3rd 2013, 2:22 am

maverick wrote:I think oil CONTROL is one of the most important issues to address, especially in a BBF, not just to help it make power or better MPG, but to help it LIVE.

And as I once heard an EXPERT engine builder say, "If you don't believe that a flying liquid will slow down a rotating assembly, try tossing a pail of water through a fan." Laughing Laughing Laughing

Oil control is not all about bolting a bunch of parts on and saying Gee we have improved things although that seems to be the simple logic here. Ask any EXPERT engine builder and they will tell you the same, unless of course they have something sitting on the shelf they want to selll. Laughing Not everything works as you would think and for a stock application that will go 200,000 miles without killing bearing just what do you think needs improvement???


Last edited by 466cj on January 3rd 2013, 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  466cj on January 3rd 2013, 2:28 am

bbf-falcon wrote:My 03 Taurus w/dohc duratech engine has one.

Yes, yes it does, and it has 4 valves per cylinder, 4 bolt mains, an aluminum block, and will shift at 6,500 or so stock. Do you think the windage tray is on that engine for fuel economy or the fact that it RPM's a bit???? We have a Duramax diesel here with a 14 quart oil pan, maybe he should consider that too.

Is all about application and nobody has yet to show real evidence that in a stock deal chugging along at 2,000 RPM that it matters.

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  maverick on January 3rd 2013, 4:31 am

466cj wrote:
maverick wrote:I think oil CONTROL is one of the most important issues to address, especially in a BBF, not just to help it make power or better MPG, but to help it LIVE.

And as I once heard an EXPERT engine builder say, "If you don't believe that a flying liquid will slow down a rotating assembly, try tossing a pail of water through a fan." Laughing Laughing Laughing

Oil control is not all about bolting a bunch of parts on and saying Gee we have improved things although that seems to be the simple logic here. Ask any EXPERT engine builder and they will tell you the same, unless of course they have something sitting on the shelf they want to selll. Laughing Not everything works as you would think and for a stock application that will go 200,000 miles without killing bearing just what do you think needs improvement???

1. The OP asked about a windage tray.
2. He's looking for every little gain he can get.
3. He's working on the engine now anyway.
4. His oil pan is a rusty POS that needs to be replaced.
5. The oiling system on this piece of 60's era engineering is marginal at best.
6. Most of the responses merely answered his question by offering a part # or related advice. (no sales pitches)
7. The OP never mentioned having a 2000 rpm chip in his rev limiter...it was 466cj who suggested that imaginary
2000 rpm ceiling.
8. Most of the guys on this board will improve the oiling system on a BBF as an inexpensive matter of routine...and can
do it in their sleep.
9. Speaking of sleep, I think someone needs a nap.
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  466cj on January 3rd 2013, 1:03 pm

and if the OP read on the internet that P51's would on his stock engine improve his fuel economy I guess we should just provide the part number??? I mean is just updating 1960's backwards technology.


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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  maverick on January 3rd 2013, 2:34 pm

Probably wouldn't work well at 2000 rpm.
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  bbf-falcon on January 3rd 2013, 7:49 pm

466cj wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:My 03 Taurus w/dohc duratech engine has one.

Yes, yes it does, and it has 4 valves per cylinder, 4 bolt mains, an aluminum block, and will shift at 6,500 or so stock. Do you think the windage tray is on that engine for fuel economy or the fact that it RPM's a bit???? We have a Duramax diesel here with a 14 quart oil pan, maybe he should consider that too.

Is all about application and nobody has yet to show real evidence that in a stock deal chugging along at 2,000 RPM that it matters.

Well shit,fomoco should have called you before they designed and installed them then. You could have saved them millions Rolling Eyes Razz Razz

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  res0rli9 on January 3rd 2013, 7:59 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:
466cj wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:My 03 Taurus w/dohc duratech engine has one.

Yes, yes it does, and it has 4 valves per cylinder, 4 bolt mains, an aluminum block, and will shift at 6,500 or so stock. Do you think the windage tray is on that engine for fuel economy or the fact that it RPM's a bit???? We have a Duramax diesel here with a 14 quart oil pan, maybe he should consider that too.

Is all about application and nobody has yet to show real evidence that in a stock deal chugging along at 2,000 RPM that it matters.

Well shit,fomoco should have called you before they designed and installed them then. You could have saved them millions Rolling Eyes Razz Razz

affraid lol! lol! lol!

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  Bret Powell on January 3rd 2013, 8:41 pm

I like the MPG Piece. http://mpgheads.com/black_max.php

I've seen Canton's BBC screened deals start cracking in the screen, they are not just like the Ford piece but similar only shorter.

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  richter69 on January 3rd 2013, 10:09 pm

6.0/6.4/6.7 diesels have um............chug chug
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  maverick on January 3rd 2013, 10:13 pm

richter69 wrote:6.0/6.4/6.7 diesels have um............chug chug

Laughing
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  maverick on January 3rd 2013, 10:24 pm

OK, one more little thing...and I'm done.

Since I'm not a Duramax kinda guy, I had to do a little googling. Turns out that 14 qt. Duramax deal already has a tray...
no need to search the aftermarket for a part#. He can just continue to use the factory unit.Cool
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  466cj on January 3rd 2013, 11:25 pm

Well you guys are just so smart and know it all. Can you all edumacate me on just how much your fuel mileage will improve or just how much extra HP you made and where? Come on guys I wanna learn from you all. Just how much improvement we gonna get on a stock F250???

BTW don't know if you brain surgeons ever noticed it, but the oil already is getting in the way of the crank, spinning with the crank, and oil is dropping on to it from the camshaft. Ever think some of these applications use them to keep oil from the pan from sloshing up and hitting the crank??? No of course not. Could it have to do with reducing air entrapment in the oil, which can be a major oiling issue???

No of course must be whatever you guys think. Hey Falcon, I don't tell Ford how to design their shit, but have run across an engineer or two over the years. They laugh at a lot of what the aftermarket does and why they do things you don't know, and a good bit neither do I. I do know when I can talk to them or someone with an in at Ford or who actually did testing I listen and try to learn as much as I can, but again I don't know shit like you guys Laughing

Steve




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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  c.evans on January 4th 2013, 2:30 am

466cj wrote:Well you guys are just so smart and know it all. Can you all edumacate me on just how much your fuel mileage will improve or just how much extra HP you made and where? Come on guys I wanna learn from you all. Just how much improvement we gonna get on a stock F250???

BTW don't know if you brain surgeons ever noticed it, but the oil already is getting in the way of the crank, spinning with the crank, and oil is dropping on to it from the camshaft. Ever think some of these applications use them to keep oil from the pan from sloshing up and hitting the crank??? No of course not. Could it have to do with reducing air entrapment in the oil, which can be a major oiling issue???

No of course must be whatever you guys think. Hey Falcon, I don't tell Ford how to design their shit, but have run across an engineer or two over the years. They laugh at a lot of what the aftermarket does and why they do things you don't know, and a good bit neither do I. I do know when I can talk to them or someone with an in at Ford or who actually did testing I listen and try to learn as much as I can, but again I don't know shit like you guys Laughing

Steve




Steve,

Are you mad at everybody on here with your "you guys" comments? Or is it a situation where you just don't have any tolerance for anybody else to have an opinion or belief that is different from yours?


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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  the Coug on January 4th 2013, 8:24 am

Charlie
he is probably having his period, you know how PMS affects some women.....
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  466cj on January 4th 2013, 1:12 pm

c.evans wrote:

Steve,

Are you mad at everybody on here with your "you guys" comments? Or is it a situation where you just don't have any tolerance for anybody else to have an opinion or belief that is different from yours?


Charlie Evans

Charlie,

My comments are directed at certain individuals as are theirs at me. I certainly understand and have tolerance for other opinions, although when you state things as fact then as far as I am concerned it is open for discussion. Don't like my style sorry.

I have little tolerance for those who are ignorant and just want to belittle. Just look at Coug's comment I have PMS and am on my period. Now are you going to come on here and tell him his comments are out of place??? Now I know he posted after you, but again are you going to post that his comments are out of place???

I will also say these individuals have no tolerance for opinions that differ from their own. It takes two to tango, but you know that and the fact that you single me out well guess that is just how you see it...

Steve


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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  richter69 on January 4th 2013, 1:50 pm

lol cougs bein' nice...... Wink
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Interesting?

Post  madman on January 4th 2013, 5:20 pm

HA HA Gee Guys I read that windage tray article in the Ford Forum, It does make a little sense in terms of less oil drag. I just wanted to do things properly with my 460 engine. Funny ive had it a LONG time (1984) and this is the first time its ever been apart this much. My mileage on Hiway Pulling my 14 foot boat with cover and a Hi Lo fiberglass cap is 13.7 mpg!!Checked often and properly. On propane I get 10 mpg.. Not bad for a Old Truck BUT I think its little things that make a difference when fine tuning for mileage. Thanx all I enjoyed the replies (most of them ha ha )Mike

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  the Coug on January 4th 2013, 6:34 pm

I have some Cheese for it you if wish? cheddar, swiss, fumunda,,, which would you like?
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  466cj on January 4th 2013, 9:24 pm

the Coug wrote:I have some Cheese for it you if wish? cheddar, swiss, fumunda,,, which would you like?

Good one Randy, so when are you going on the Jerry Springer show? BTW really could care less about your stupid comments, I know you cannot help yourself. Just used you as an example, sorry if it upset you.

On a serious note I'm waiting to hear others experience with using a windage tray to improve fuel mileage on an F250. Sorry if I sounded sarcastic in my earlier post. I promise to be good and listen. Not too old to learn. Cool

All the best,

Steve

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  Lem Evans on January 4th 2013, 9:38 pm

"He did not ask any of us if he needed one....seemed he just wanted to know what was available."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I posted this 3 days ago.....it is the long and short of the deal.


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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  Mark Miller on January 4th 2013, 9:48 pm

dfree383 wrote:
Mark Miller wrote:Dave,

Thanks for the information i have a D1VE Block.

Later Mark.

Its a bolt on with the proper fastners with a factory crank in a D1 block you'll possibly need to use some washers as spacers of you have a stroker crank.

On an A460 block you need to gut the straps on the tray to clear the center of the main caps.

Dave,

It's just a 466 i wish it made the power your 466 does. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Later Mark.

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Windage Tray

Post  madman on November 11th 2013, 7:53 pm

Thanx all I enjoyed all the replies, Nice of you all  to take the time replying to  this Post. I Imagine that any thing that reduces  crank wetting would help reduce power losses a bit resulting in perhaps a bit more power not sure bout mileage, I currently have engine completely apart, man was it heavy!! On my Chinese engine stand I could  barely turn the engine  180 degrees to get at the crank oil pan, until I stuck a five foot pipe in it ,Im l 6 foot. 4 inches 230 pounds so being this skinny probably didn't help. Had to really wrestle with it,!!! Now rebuild begins, T I really apreciated the replies Thanx , Mike

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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  70FB on November 12th 2013, 9:42 am

I found this in my oil pan 2 changes ago. Pulled the pan and it looks like this piece came from the side of it in between 2 welds where the baffle is tacked to the frame. No other damage or marks found. Last oil change a week ago found another piece. This is a deep front sump Canton. I plan on letting them know about it. I'm changing pans this winter anyway but thought I'd make it aware. Maybe my caps are moving causing this...Don't know yet.
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Re: Windage tray!!

Post  dfree383 on November 12th 2013, 9:50 am

70FB wrote:I found this in my oil pan 2 changes ago. Pulled the pan and it looks like this piece came from the side of it in between 2 welds where the baffle is tacked to the frame. No other damage or marks found. Last oil change a week ago found another piece. This is a deep front sump Canton. I plan on letting them know about it. I'm changing pans this winter anyway but thought I'd make it aware. Maybe my caps are moving causing this...Don't know yet.
You need to pull the pan, the tray is hitting something and coming apart.
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