Help me build my engine!

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Help me build my engine!

Post  popskull on January 10th 2013, 9:52 pm

Ok, I am new to the big block game (and new to the site, but have been reading a fair amount), but have been around the block in the small block and 4 cylinder world. I have a basic idea of what I would like to build, just want some more seasoned opinions here.

The car it will be going in is a Fox body convertible, the intended purpose will be just to have fun, run a good number, cruise to get ice cream and to cruise nights, and spin the rollers off the dyno at dyno days... I just want a butt load of power. I want the car to run on E85 (which I will test, then get a barrel for use, so it will be consistent). This is also intended as somewhat a budget build (no billet cranks, no aluminum rods, etc, but not a CHEAP build). I intend to keep this N/A for a while (so all clearances will be dealt with accordingly), and I am aiming for 850 to the wheels through a TH400 (figure this is close to 1000 on the crank). So here is the proposed parts list so far:

- A460 block (4.6 bore x 4.5 stroke)
- A460 heads (2.4 valve, possibly?)
- Scat 4340 crank
- Scat 4340 rods
- JE gas port pistons
- 14:1 compression (I need to know if this will work on E85 though?)
- EFI by Megasquirt
- Some sort of cast manifold I will modify myself for injection (haven't looked into them yet)

I guess the basic questions I have are:
Does this look like a powerful build?
Will this compression work on E85?
Any suggestions on other parts I should look into?


I see this thread is dang close to what I want to do, so I will tab it for reference.

Thanks in advance guys!

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  bruno on January 11th 2013, 10:19 am

i know if you were on gas 1000 plus would be a no brainer .... just not familar with e85 ...good luck with the build
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  popskull on January 11th 2013, 10:38 am

bruno wrote:i know if you were on gas 1000 plus would be a no brainer .... just not familar with e85 ...good luck with the build

Thanks for the reply! On something like this, what gas would you recommend? I am most familiar with small bore things, with less compression (and usually boost). The fact that BBFs can have such large bores seems to allow a bit more compression without having to run insane octanes. I know what E85 compares to with gas, as it is what I am more familiar with, just don't know what fuel BBFs are happy with...

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  the Coug on January 11th 2013, 11:16 am

another one of those 1000 hp ice cream cars, just to show off for your friends..... my advice to you is Call Jon Kaase and ask him how easy 1000 hp is to drive on the streets. yes I know you have driven 1000 hp ricers, but it is not the same with one of these engines not only do you have 1000 hp under your peddle, YOU HAVE 900+ FT LBS OF TORQUE, and that what will kill you instantly, because no matter how slow or fast you are moving the slishtest blink of the gas peddle you are gone traction is wasted and anyone beside you is gone also. Just think of it like this take your baddest small block and try and drive it on a frozen ice rink......at highway speeds. I think that pretty much sums it up....
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  popskull on January 11th 2013, 11:21 am

the Coug wrote:another one of those 1000 hp ice cream cars, just to show off for your friends..... my advice to you is Call Jon Kaase and ask him how easy 1000 hp is to drive on the streets. yes I know you have driven 1000 hp ricers, but it is not the same with one of these engines not only do you have 1000 hp under your peddle, YOU HAVE 900+ FT LBS OF TORQUE, and that what will kill you instantly, because no matter how slow or fast you are moving the slishtest blink of the gas peddle you are gone traction is wasted and anyone beside you is gone also. Just think of it like this take your baddest small block and try and drive it on a frozen ice rink......at highway speeds. I think that pretty much sums it up....

Ok, thanks for the input.

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  the Coug on January 11th 2013, 11:27 am

The reason I ask you to call Jon Kaase is because he wanted a 1000hp mustang to drive on the street so He built one, He then detuned it because no matter how you drove it , it light the tires at any speed any time, even trying to pass cars on the highway it would try to get loose. Even detuned it was Like he said even at 100mph it would light the tires up at will, and when it did you were not in control. and besides E-85 is not consistant. if you can't afford racing gas you you are in trouble...
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  bruno on January 11th 2013, 11:33 am

shoot this guy has 3000 hp on tap ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMBLu0Na6mg ... very easy to drive if setup right !!!! coug has been sheltered all his life Very Happy
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  the Coug on January 11th 2013, 11:57 am

bruno wrote:shoot this guy has 3000 hp on tap ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMBLu0Na6mg ... very easy to drive if setup right !!!! coug has been sheltered all his life Very Happy


Hey F@#$ it go for it I was trying to take some sense into this guy But you know it .... you can't even build an engine but you know it... so Hell go for it Go Kill somebody.... then you will have to deal with it....


Bruno if you would go to 1 Tech Seminar you could LEARN something, I think you need to go to Let Les Morris teach you something at least he knows the difference between most engine parts and his rectum. all you know how to do is YOU TUBE copy and paste


Last edited by the Coug on January 11th 2013, 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  bbf-falcon on January 11th 2013, 12:06 pm

With 14.1 compression,the ice creme shop better not be more than a block away. If it was me I would build a Big pump gas engine and have it setup for spray or turbo for when yoy were at the track.

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Street cruizer

Post  Mark Laczo on January 11th 2013, 12:28 pm

Here is another real world experience.

A buddy of mine found a pump gas A460 headed 521 for sale with 10-12 hours on it. He phoned the guy and discussed the engine specs and such. He asked the guy why do you want to sell it ?

The guy had it in one of those Cobra replica cars, it was located in Saskatoon, SK. Anyways the guy pulls up to the lights and mashes the pedal and basically Sh_t his pants and just about took out not only the cars beside him but in front and in the wrong lane LOL. At freeways speeds 55-60 mph it would break loose easily. He learned the hard way without destroying the car or killing anyone that the BBF's make some big torque. He then sold this engine to my buddy and built a nice 466 pump gas with the TFS 290 heads.

My buddy then put this engine on the dyno and it made 741hp and alomost 700 ft/tq on 91 premium.

FWIW Mark
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  bigblok2000ranger on January 11th 2013, 12:49 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:With 14.1 compression,the ice creme shop better not be more than a block away. If it was me I would build a Big pump gas engine and have it setup for spray or turbo for when yoy were at the track.

X2!
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  psfracer on January 11th 2013, 12:55 pm

Hey OP, where do you live? Will it be driven in good weather only (i.e no rain)? I am assuming that. Local cruise spot not too far away? How many miles a year do you think you would drive it? I think you could do it if you put a good drag radial on the car vs a street tire. But if you do that, you can't drive it in the rain---which you wouldn't want to anyway.

Things to consider:

Go with less compression and make it a pump gas motor. A friend of mine did that with his A460 headed motor, 598 CID, pump gas, and it made 980 ENGINE HP and goes 9.40s in a 3800lb mustang in the 1/4 without even trying really. Powerglide just off the footbrake, shifting early, etc. But he drives around with a good drag radial (M/T).

Also, depending on how many miles it will be driven a year, you need to select the right camshaft so your valve springs live. But a milder camshaft will affect engine hp, so it will be somewhat of a compromise. Look at your radiator/fan/shroud set up, go with the largest radiator you can.



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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  5pointslow on January 11th 2013, 12:58 pm

for what you wanna build , why not build a DOHC 4.6 with a turbo or pro charger ?

i know of a 98 cobra with 780 rwhp local ,drives it all over the damn place Ac on ect and gets damn near 20 mpg ....

1000 hp bbf in that vert without stiffening it up it wont be pretty

E85 everything i have ever seen on that stuff..is its cheap but you can test it and get a different % in it every damn time


you could build a 93 pump gas bbf and still make close to 700-800 hp with p51 heads
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  psfracer on January 11th 2013, 1:01 pm

5pointslow wrote:for what you wanna build , why not build a DOHC 4.6 with a turbo or pro charger ?

i know of a 98 cobra with 780 rwhp local ,drives it all over the damn place Ac on ect and gets damn near 20 mpg ....

1000 hp bbf in that vert without stiffening it up it wont be pretty

E85 everything i have ever seen on that stuff..is its cheap but you can test it and get a different % in it every damn time


you could build a 93 pump gas bbf and still make close to 700-800 hp with p51 heads

Great point, didn't even think about that which would be a big issue in any car, let alone a Fox.
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  69F100 on January 11th 2013, 1:09 pm

I have done a bunch on the e85 on high c/r engine it is harder to keep the tune right where lower c/r engines are not.If you buying it by the drum why not go with alky it is the same maintnance program.The price of alky is about the same plus you have to use a alky fuel system except for the carb.
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  Dave De on January 11th 2013, 1:23 pm

popskull wrote:Ok, I am new to the big block game (and new to the site, but have been reading a fair amount), but have been around the block in the small block and 4 cylinder world. I have a basic idea of what I would like to build, just want some more seasoned opinions here.

The car it will be going in is a Fox body convertible, the intended purpose will be just to have fun, run a good number, cruise to get ice cream and to cruise nights, and spin the rollers off the dyno at dyno days... I just want a butt load of power. I want the car to run on E85 (which I will test, then get a barrel for use, so it will be consistent). This is also intended as somewhat a budget build (no billet cranks, no aluminum rods, etc, but not a CHEAP build). I intend to keep this N/A for a while (so all clearances will be dealt with accordingly), and I am aiming for 850 to the wheels through a TH400 (figure this is close to 1000 on the crank). So here is the proposed parts list so far:

- A460 block (4.6 bore x 4.5 stroke)
- A460 heads (2.4 valve, possibly?)
- Scat 4340 crank
- Scat 4340 rods
- JE gas port pistons
- 14:1 compression (I need to know if this will work on E85 though?)
- EFI by Megasquirt
- Some sort of cast manifold I will modify myself for injection (haven't looked into them yet)

I guess the basic questions I have are:
Does this look like a powerful build?
Will this compression work on E85?
Any suggestions on other parts I should look into?


I see this thread is dang close to what I want to do, so I will tab it for reference.

Thanks in advance guys!

I've run E85 at 13.6 compression and heard of others run it in the high 14's. EFI should make it better to control the AFR. I think you will need the TFS manifold for A heads. As far as big block hp on the street, 600 is fun, 800 is gross, and 1000 is insane. Just gotta be on your game because you wont hookup with a moderate amount of peddle at any speed.
Seems like you are familiar with E85 once I started using it I wont go back.
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  popskull on January 11th 2013, 1:48 pm

I appreciate the replies, so many things to think about. Whoever said to maybe lower the compression a bit and spray it at the track might have foreseen my future. Yes, this power is alot to handle, and yes, the car will have an 8.50 cage with extra bracing, I THINK it will hold up (but only time will tell, I suppose).

The cruise spot is about 3 miles down the road, I would figure I would drive it 3,000 to 5,000 a year. I know camshaft selection is big on reliability of valve springs, that is all something I will have to look at down the road, for sure. Maybe in a convertible I am overshooting myself and will end up shooting myself in the foot... but this is what I have to work with. Eventually, I would like to get a tube chassis car and I think this engine would end up in that, but that's down the line a bit.

As for the consistency of E85, I live in Illinois, have been running E85 in numerous things (short of my weed whacker), and during the summer months it tests out fairly consistent, if I go to the same station. Many of my friends run it too and it tests consistently. Thing is with the drum, I will go to my fav station and fill the drum to store it for the spring and fall when the blends get iffy.

Soooo, maybe I should lower the compression to 12:1, run a milder cam, shoot for 850-900 on motor and then spray it at the track?

Or I will just drop in a 4BT Cummins, twin turbo it and do something different (the more I think about this, the more I like it, especially for driveability's sake).

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  psfracer on January 11th 2013, 2:52 pm

Oh, ok--didn't know you were going to put an 8.50 cage in it. When you said convertible, I was thinking more of a show car that would never see the track.
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  the Coug on January 11th 2013, 2:58 pm

I am like Bruno I think you should build and go out and see if you can kill someone....
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  bruno on January 11th 2013, 3:08 pm

the Coug wrote:I am like Bruno I think you should build and go out and see if you can kill someone....

Randy , i can definetly respect your opinion , but this is 2013 , the age of electronics ...get out of your fred flinstone era Very Happy
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  466cj on January 11th 2013, 3:57 pm

Where I came from 900 HP BB dirt modifieds are not uncommon. Coming out of a turn full throttle 80mph sideways down a dirt straight away braking hard into the next turn at 130mph. Looks like they throw them things down the straight away. A lot of guys tell you cannot run a dominator as you cannot control it.

Seems nobody ever heard of a bellcrank??? All you need to do is have a very slow ratio for first 1/2 of the throttle travel. Is so simple even a caveman could do it.

Personally if I was going to do a deal like the OP wants I'd use gas. The alcohol in a port injected setup will need a very good fuel system and big injectors. Keep in mind 40 - 60 psi pumps with the volume needed are a harder deal than the volume at 6psi. Not saying you cannot do it, just requires the right parts $$$. I'd also say be easier/better to use 16 injectors. Gas don't need as much volume and easier upkeep considering this is a "street" car.

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  the Coug on January 11th 2013, 4:12 pm

bruno wrote:
the Coug wrote:I am like Bruno I think you should build and go out and see if you can kill someone....

Randy , i can definetly respect your opinion , but this is 2013 , the age of electronics ...get out of your fred flinstone era Very Happy



Just so you know the first one of these guys that Kill someone with these 1000+ hp cars on the street I will be on the witness stand saying Bruno said it was perfectly ok to do it.... this is 2013
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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  popskull on January 11th 2013, 5:10 pm

466cj wrote:Where I came from 900 HP BB dirt modifieds are not uncommon. Coming out of a turn full throttle 80mph sideways down a dirt straight away braking hard into the next turn at 130mph. Looks like they throw them things down the straight away. A lot of guys tell you cannot run a dominator as you cannot control it.

Seems nobody ever heard of a bellcrank??? All you need to do is have a very slow ratio for first 1/2 of the throttle travel. Is so simple even a caveman could do it.

Personally if I was going to do a deal like the OP wants I'd use gas. The alcohol in a port injected setup will need a very good fuel system and big injectors. Keep in mind 40 - 60 psi pumps with the volume needed are a harder deal than the volume at 6psi. Not saying you cannot do it, just requires the right parts $$$. I'd also say be easier/better to use 16 injectors. Gas don't need as much volume and easier upkeep considering this is a "street" car.

Steve

I agree, I would be looking at a 16 injector setup anyway, just for certain reasons some people might not understand. As for the pumps, I can get a few to work Wink

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  richter69 on January 11th 2013, 5:21 pm

Ive drove my junk on the street, granted not far................I also seem to be able to make it to the staging lanes and back to the trailer after a run without crashing it. I like icecream...........


I'm not familiar w E85, but I might get to be............have seen a lot of guys spray the hell out of a BBC with it though like a 450 shot.....the 500 took out a few piston.

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Re: Help me build my engine!

Post  popskull on January 11th 2013, 5:28 pm

richter69 wrote:Ive drove my junk on the street, granted not far................I also seem to be able to make it to the staging lanes and back to the trailer after a run without crashing it. I like icecream...........


I'm not familiar w E85, but I might get to be............have seen a lot of guys spray the hell out of a BBC with it though like a 450 shot.....the 500 took out a few piston.


That's alot of spray Shocked

And yeah, I could handle a bike with the same power to weight ratio and about 1/10th the contact patch that the car would have... affraid

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