Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

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Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  psfracer on February 22nd 2013, 12:47 pm

I have a vacuum pump to a breather tank, which I drain after everyday of racing.

Last time at the track, did 4 1/4 mile passes, drained the catch can and it was filled with about 300ml of oil (1 quart = 946ml), so about 1/3 of a quart. This seems a lot to me after only 4 passes. I am pulling 10 inches of vacuum currently. The only other thing I can think of is at the end of a pass, I just let off the gas and let the engine help slow the car down (vs shutting off the engine and using only brakes).

Thoughts?

Here is a picture of the setup:

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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  jbozzelle on February 22nd 2013, 1:08 pm

I can't help you with your question but do you have any pics of that pan setup under the engine?

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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  56Tbird on February 22nd 2013, 1:21 pm

Paul ,I'd back it down a couple of lbs. and see if it helps.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  richter69 on February 22nd 2013, 2:04 pm

where is the relief valve loacted? also the way you have the fitting on the vc it looks like it can pick up oil spray..............

The 10" is not a concern nor is the shutdown procedure.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  psfracer on February 22nd 2013, 2:30 pm

I ended up not using the regulator -- because with the pulley I chose the pump would only pull 10 psi max. I still have it though, as I thought I would need it, its MOR #22633

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-22633/media/images

Maybe I should put it on and adjust accordingly? I am thinking its going above 10 psi during shutdown or perhaps like you said oil is going right on the return off of the valve cover. The return itself that is on the valve cover has a series of small holes along the perimeter though (its not a large hole in the center like a typical AN fitting).
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  John Myrick on February 22nd 2013, 2:46 pm

Might want to try a baffle inside the VC
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  richter69 on February 22nd 2013, 2:55 pm

yep ^^^^^ baffle it.

Mines pulls 12", the relief is right next to the intet on the vc, mine is located in the top, baffle enderneath it..............no oil at all in my catch can.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  HorsinAround on February 22nd 2013, 3:50 pm

richter69 wrote:yep ^^^^^ baffle it.

Mines pulls 12", the relief is right next to the intet on the vc, mine is located in the top, baffle enderneath it..............no oil at all in my catch can.

X2. I pulled about 15" at 8400 and never once had oil in the catch can. Inlet on top of the VC and baffled underneath it.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on February 23rd 2013, 9:15 am

John Myrick wrote:Might want to try a baffle inside the VC

I believe that the baffle or suction location will be where you will find the solution.
Moroso and Star make nice low profile bolt in baffle/ fittings.
Location can be a little tricky with short covers.
I like putting mine in the little flat corner section right next to where yours is currently.
You can also weld a kinda flat baffle plate inside the cover that shields the suction location from rocker arm spray. As you further your engine development program, you may want to investigate the amount of oil that is sent to the top end. Determining the optimim lifter galley restrictor for the particular lifter that you run can be helpful.
Keith
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  psfracer on February 23rd 2013, 1:47 pm

jbozzelle wrote:I can't help you with your question but do you have any pics of that pan setup under the engine?

I don't have any pictures from under the car, as I would need to put it on a lift to get any decent pictures. At home I just use jacks / jack stands so the car is never more then 2 1/2 feet off the ground, so its impossible to take a decent picture with it that close to the camera / ground.

What I think I will do is put the 400 shot tune in, squeeze out of the hole, put it on the bumper, then I will send you those pictures from the start line. alien
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  psfracer on February 23rd 2013, 1:50 pm

Ok, baffle it is. I will look at putting one in.

I was also thinking, since the vacuum fitting is on the front of the valve cover, that maybe after a pass while I am slowing down, the oil would rush forward under the valve cover, which would put it right where that fitting is (if its a lot).
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  David Cole on February 23rd 2013, 2:05 pm

psfracer wrote:Ok, baffle it is. I will look at putting one in.

I was also thinking, since the vacuum fitting is on the front of the valve cover, that maybe after a pass while I am slowing down, the oil would rush forward under the valve cover, which would put it right where that fitting is (if its a lot).

if you don't want to weld a baffle into those valve covers, take a look at the fitting from Star Machine. I use one and it's a great little piece that's not too spendy. I use this fitting mounted on top of my v/c. I open my tank every 5-6 race weekends and might have a tablespoon of oil.

http://www.starvacuumpumps.com/products/STR.06.11.001

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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Doug Rahn on February 24th 2013, 6:36 am

After about 8 to 10 eighth mile passes with 8-9 inches of vacuum mine will pull enough to fill up the cap from a spray bomb paint can. Probably about half oil and half water pulling from two places in the tunnel ram valley using a Peterson regulator mounted at the back of the t-ram. No baffles.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on February 24th 2013, 8:49 am

David Cole wrote:
psfracer wrote:Ok, baffle it is. I will look at putting one in.

I was also thinking, since the vacuum fitting is on the front of the valve cover, that maybe after a pass while I am slowing down, the oil would rush forward under the valve cover, which would put it right where that fitting is (if its a lot).

if you don't want to weld a baffle into those valve covers, take a look at the fitting from Star Machine. I use one and it's a great little piece that's not too spendy. I use this fitting mounted on top of my v/c. I open my tank every 5-6 race weekends and might have a tablespoon of oil.

http://www.starvacuumpumps.com/products/STR.06.11.001


That is the ones that I use.....
Keith
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  kjett on February 25th 2013, 9:11 am

Did you buy those fittings right from Star Machine or from a distributor? I need a new set for my new valve covers and can't find them locally.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on February 25th 2013, 9:57 am

I bought mine direct from Star.
(410) 335-1629
Star Machine

Thanks
Keith
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  psfracer on March 3rd 2013, 3:53 pm

Here is mine from Moroso. 6 sided nut, only 3 of the sides have the holes you see, the other 3 sides are solid.

I had this positioned where the center holes where straight up when the valve cover was on. Should I position the holes another way? It seems it is somehow picking up alot of oil---I mean a lot. Checked it again after racing last weekend, another 300 ml. So thats basically 1/2 a quart after 8 passes!!!



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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on March 3rd 2013, 8:09 pm

You may end up doing what I did. On my 605 I was spinning the vacuum pump pretty hard. To stop the oil migration through the pump, I tried many suction locations, baffles and such.
I finally split the suction points to pull out of each valve cover using the Star fittings. So one #12 line comes from each cover goes to a tee and then goes to the pump.
I theorized that of only half the volume of air was coming from each cover, it would be less likely to bring the oil mist with it. It worked. I left that setup on the 605 for over 600 passes and now the same stuff is on the 618 Interceptor. One more detail...I use a Star vent tank too.
The Moroso baffles you have are fine. I like them in the little flat area in the top front of the Moroso covers. I would make the holes face down.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  c.evans on March 3rd 2013, 11:26 pm

Paul,

I agree with Keith. Turn the holes so they are downward, and are self draining back on to the cylinder head.

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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on March 4th 2013, 8:03 am

Here is a picture of my plumbers nightmare. That little corner of the valve cover seems to work well except for tight clearance on the right side using a 1.8 rocker on an A head. It splits the suctions from the covers. In my case, using a Star tank..it goes from the tee to stage 1 of the Star, goes to the pump, then back to stage 2 of the Star tank where it exhausts. I also added a pressure relief valve (red thing on the passenger side of manifold) that opens in the event that the vacuum system fails. It is made from a Peterson one way check valve and opens at about 1 lb, venting in to a separate small Moroso tank. It has never had to work yet....
Probably not the ultimate setup for all, but that is what I ended up with.
Keith
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  cool40 on March 4th 2013, 3:00 pm

Paul i'm thinking where you have the hose on the v/c could be the issue.if your getting a lot of oil up top and have to brake hard at the track it would'nt take long to get that much oil in the tank.i never got any with my 526 but the 605 oils the top a little more and in the few passes i made with it i noticed a little oil in the tank. Shocked It also has the hose where you have yours,the 526 had it in the top.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  psfracer on March 26th 2013, 12:59 am

So before going racing this past weekend, I turned the fitting 180 degrees so the holes are now facing down. Still have oil in the tank, but only 100 ml after the weekend vs before which was 300 ml! So it did improve a lot. I am thinking the next time I buy a new set of valve covers, I will place it like Wheelie58, on that top corner.

Thanks for the replies and ideas everyone.
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on March 26th 2013, 8:36 pm

It is good to hear that you are heading in the right direction.
I am working on a new valve cover design that will have an integral oil separator / baffle chamber in the front.
Give me a call or PM if you want to help shake it down.
Keith
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Nevs on March 26th 2013, 8:52 pm

Wheelie58 wrote:It is good to hear that you are heading in the right direction.
I am working on a new valve cover design that will have an integral oil separator / baffle chamber in the front.
Give me a call or PM if you want to help shake it down.
Keith
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Keith is a standup guy to say the least! I'd jump at the offer... Idea Cool
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Re: Oil usage / Vacuum Pump question

Post  Wheelie58 on March 26th 2013, 9:20 pm

Me??
No way...:-)
Thanks
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