build help

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build help

Post  toytroy on March 25th 2013, 11:02 pm

I bought a 93 notch back 4cyl. auto for $200. I have a 460 out of a 87 f250 and a c6 trans. The trans is in good shape but, I'm gonna rebuild it to handle alittle more beating. Haven't chosen a stall converter yet due to I don't know how I wanna build the motor. I'm on a budget of about $3000 for the motor. I have some dove that need rebuilt. So what I was thinking is, do I buy different heads or do I buy a stroker kit. As soon as I decide on the short block/heads, I wanna have a custom grind cam made to suit the build. I'm new to ford so I'm just trying to get some opinions. The plans for the car is gonna be a strickly race car. I've already gutted it, have a 8.8 rear end out of a 90 fox. I plan on running slicks with 4.10's. I've been doin a lot of research the last 6 months or so but it seems like ever bbf fox build is like a $15-20k build and I don't have that kind of money. I need to build it for half that. Id like to hit low 12's-hi 11's.

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Re: build help

Post  dfree383 on March 26th 2013, 12:37 am

if the bottom end is not wore out, I'd do a top end and let it eat for now.

Set of Ford racing SCJ's. a victor Intake, Mechanical FT cam and Lifters, Timing Chain, Pushrods and Roller Rockers.
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 12:53 am

The motor has about 16x,xxx in it. It didn't seem to smoke/burn oil when it was still in the truck. The thing I don't want to do is, get the motor all build and put in then, 3 months later, the bottom end starts to go. That's why I was thinking of doin a stroker or possibly just doin a stock block dove build. From what I've read, scj heads need special pistons for ptv clearance. Also, I'm going with a roller cam. Id rather spend the extra cash. I'm not looking to make high hp numbers but, decent torque and a decent setup to get me deep in the 12's for now.

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Re: build help

Post  dfree383 on March 26th 2013, 12:55 am

The flat tappet is a better bang for the buck, spend the money elsewhere or on good heads. The scj valves will clear with reasonable lifts and durations. Talk with Randy Malik he likes doing innovative builds.

Might be able to get away with ring and bearing job and get quite a bit of time out of it, just keep the RPM down.
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 1:04 am

I've just had bad experiance with flat tappet cams and have seen a few other that have had cam/lifter issues is why id like to try a roller cam. I just don't want to spend $500 on cam, lifter, push rods for it to fail again and then have to re buy it all. The first time I had one fail, I thought it might have been my fault so I bought another (comp to lunati) fallowed the break in and oil requirements. About 9 months later, ran into problems with only about 4,xxx miles.

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Re: build help

Post  69F100 on March 26th 2013, 1:05 am

toytroy wrote:The motor has about 16x,xxx in it. It didn't seem to smoke/burn oil when it was still in the truck. The thing I don't want to do is, get the motor all build and put in then, 3 months later, the bottom end starts to go. That's why I was thinking of doin a stroker or possibly just doin a stock block dove build. From what I've read, scj heads need special pistons for ptv clearance. Also, I'm going with a roller cam. Id rather spend the extra cash. I'm not looking to make high hp numbers but, decent torque and a decent setup to get me deep in the 12's for now.

I went into the 10s with my ranger at 3265# with stock bottom end except for a set of speed pro elcheapo flat top pistons and stock dove-c heads with some home porting on them with a victor and one of Randy's solid flat tappet cams with a stock c6 with a b&m shift kit with a 4000 stall.
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Re: build help

Post  dfree383 on March 26th 2013, 1:11 am

I've never had an issue with a FT cam other than EMC crazy ass lobes and stupid ratio rockers. If you stick with mild stuff they are not a problem.

With a stock type bottom end I'd keep it below 6000 rpm and that in it self coupled with the lower compression ratio you'll have does not require a big cam and heavy valve springs.

The best bang for your buck is going to be putting some aftermarket aluminum heads on it.

A 9.5:1 pump gas 460 with some good heads and FT cam will get you in the 11's no problem and do it on the cheap.
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 10:07 am

Thanks for the replys. Ill definatly look into and do a lot more research on flat tappet cams. Maybe I just some how got 1 lemon cam from comp and 1 bad lifter from lunati. Do you have any recomendations on cam specs that I should go with? Also, a decent head choice without breaking the bank?

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Re: build help

Post  dfree383 on March 26th 2013, 10:25 am

I'd get with Lem on a set of Ford Racing SCJ heads heads they are a great bang for the buck.

For a cam either Lem Evans or Randy Malik would be a good choice to buy from, I'd think the following specs for a 9.5:1 466 with a C6 and a 2800-3000 ish 11" convertor and some 3.55 / 3.73 gears.

Mechanical FT 238 I 248 E @ .050 about mid .500 lift on a 108 would be the ticket IMO you need to keep it a little mild to make sure the valves will clear with the SCJ heads on your stock pistons.

To keep the carb under the stock fox hood, use a Torker II and a 950 hp holley.

Randy also knows the correct part numbers for some reasonable priced harland sharp rockers that work well on a ford.

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Re: build help

Post  LivermoreDave on March 26th 2013, 1:59 pm

toytroy wrote:The motor has about 16x,xxx in it. It didn't seem to smoke/burn oil when it was still in the truck. The thing I don't want to do is, get the motor all build and put in then, 3 months later, the bottom end starts to go.

At least install crankshaft bearings.

Dave.

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Re: build help

Post  IDT-572 on March 26th 2013, 2:32 pm

Guys high 11's or low 12' is a walk in the park running stock everything. If he is gutting this car for all out drag. I don't see any need for any thing but a set of bowl blended Doves and a flat tappet cam, flat top pistons, with headers, performer rpm intake, converter, gear.

Now if he wants to build a better platform for more hp on down the road, then that's different. Flat tappet cams now days, if your doing them correctly are not a problem. I have done several here as of late.

The last one I built was a .060 over 460 stock bottom end 255 265 @ .050 tappet lift, .650 lift on a 108 cam 4500 converter 4.10 gear in a 66 Mustang @ 3000 ran 6.40's on the motor shifting below 6500. That is good for right at a 10 flat 1/4 mile.

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Re: build help

Post  bbf-falcon on March 26th 2013, 2:44 pm

IDT-572 wrote:Guys high 11's or low 12' is a walk in the park running stock everything. If he is gutting this car for all out drag. I don't see any need for any thing but a set of bowl blended Doves and a flat tappet cam, flat top pistons, with headers, performer rpm intake, converter, gear.

Now if he wants to build a better platform for more hp on down the road, then that's different. Flat tappet cams now days, if your doing them correctly are not a problem. I have done several here as of late.

The last one I built was a .060 over 460 stock bottom end 255 265 @ .050 tappet lift, .650 lift on a 108 cam 4500 converter 4.10 gear in a 66 Mustang @ 3000 ran 6.40's on the motor shifting below 6500. That is good for right at a 10 flat 1/4 mile.


I agree. My brother has a Fox body w/flat top 466.Stock dove C's and a mild hyd. 4.30 gear. runs 12.20's all day.Short block is bone stock except for .030 bore. Not balanced.

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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 5:23 pm

Thanks for all the replys. Since I already have the d0ve heads, I'm just gonna use there since this is a budget build. Ill just freshin up the short block. When I pulled the motor and tore it down, there wasn't 1 bit of sludge or metal shavings anywhere so I think I will just freshin it up and have the bores checked.

So is the torquer 2 intake a decent power maker? Id like to keep it all under the stock hood but I could always put a cawl on it. I'm using a d&d swap kit with motor mounts, not plates.

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Re: build help

Post  IDT-572 on March 26th 2013, 5:40 pm

That intake will work with your goals............. Is it best, no but it will do the job.
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Re: build help

Post  richter69 on March 26th 2013, 7:04 pm

my first 460 was a bone stock shortblock, new bearings, a ballhone and some rings. A set of mild worked doves, stock valves, rockers etc, worn out 305h comp cam, factory iron dual plane and an 850 carb.

ran 12.0s all day, 3400#s w a c6 and a 4.30 gear.

even sprayed a small plate on it and ran 11.30s, no rollbar....... slapper bar suspension, minispool, worn out slicks from a swap meat..........
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 8:23 pm

Yea I'm not looking for the best products, just ones that will work with what I'm trying to do. Talking on this forum has really got me motivated. I had some people on another forum saying it was a waist of time, that I should have went with a 302. I obviously don't believe that is true but, others may. Since I already have the 460, c6 and d0ved heads, it would be stupid imo to go buy a 302.

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Re: build help

Post  bigjohn2007 on March 26th 2013, 8:35 pm

Was that cam in your build a custom or off the shelf and what the cost blake?
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 11:17 pm

bigjohn2007 wrote:Was that cam in your build a custom or off the shelf and what the cost blake?

+1

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Re: build help

Post  IDT-572 on March 26th 2013, 11:29 pm

bigjohn2007 wrote:Was that cam in your build a custom or off the shelf and what the cost blake?

I'm sure it was an off the shelf deal, It came in the car when we bought it with a blown engine. It had no markings on it. I had to degree it to find out what it was. This engine also had flat tops and the heads had a so-so port job on them with 2.190 valves.

It's funny to me it seams that cam size runs dang good in any engine you put it in........... Laughing

Small chubby, small Ford, Dodge, Desoto, whatever........... Rolling Eyes If in doubt just pull that one out.
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 26th 2013, 11:58 pm

Also, what recomendation on carb and size for the setup I'm talking about?

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Re: build help

Post  IDT-572 on March 27th 2013, 12:04 am

toytroy wrote:Also, what recomendation on carb and size for the setup I'm talking about?

We had a 8896 dommy 1050 on this deal on top of a Stealth intake with a 2 inch open adapter.

I know that is not supposed to work Very Happy

If your contemplating a similar build I would run a victor with a port match and a 1050 with a 4 hole to open spacer.
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Re: build help

Post  toytroy on March 27th 2013, 12:22 am

Sorry I didn't specify, my build I'm wanting to complete. 87 460 with d0ve heads. I'm not looking at anything crazy so I think a 1000+cfm carb may be alittle to big. All I'm gonna do is port match the heads to the exhaust and intake. On a 460 stock short block with d0ve heads, mild cam and possible torquer 2 intake(?) What would be a decent carb for a budget minded person?

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Re: build help

Post  IDT-572 on March 27th 2013, 12:25 am

toytroy wrote:Sorry I didn't specify, my build I'm wanting to complete. 87 460 with d0ve heads. I'm not looking at anything crazy so I think a 1000+cfm carb may be alittle to big. All I'm gonna do is port match the heads to the exhaust and intake. On a 460 stock short block with d0ve heads, mild cam and possible torquer 2 intake(?) What would be a decent carb for a budget minded person?

I'm a quick fuel junky................ lol A 850 would be a minimum.
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Re: build help

Post  dfree383 on March 27th 2013, 12:31 am

"Port Matching" isnt worth much of anything, You need to get into the bowls and blend everything and get a proper valve job if your looking for results. Along with some bigger valves of appropriate material for the application.

I still think you better off getting some SCJ heads, over reworking / rebuilding some dove heads for absoulte bang for the buck.
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Re: build help

Post  69F100 on March 27th 2013, 1:35 am

dfree383 wrote:"Port Matching" isnt worth much of anything, You need to get into the bowls and blend everything and get a proper valve job if your looking for results. Along with some bigger valves of appropriate material for the application.

I still think you better off getting some SCJ heads, over reworking / rebuilding some dove heads for absoulte bang for the buck.

X2 I have as much in my dove-c heads as I do in a set of ported A429s with a matching victor intake I bought used.I agree with Dave on a set of SCJ heads plus you will have alot of room over the doves for future build when and if you want to step it up alittle. I am not telling you not to use the doves but if you have to redo them you will have just about as much in the doves as you would have in a set of the SCJ out of the box.Not sure if Lem still has them but he had some for a real good price awhile back I know he still carry them but not sure if they are the same price.
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