Fe vs 385 ?

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Fe vs 385 ?

Post  boker on May 18th 2013, 1:41 am

I am building a 1964 f-100 , I plan on going with a dove headed 460 , my two brothers are big fe fans , for good reason . He has a 1975 ford 3/4 4x4 that smokes most street strip 5.0 mustangs . I was just wondering has anyone ever done a , honest side by side 390ish vs 460 with a basically same engine specs , ?? We all know the 460 would be on top but what I am wondering is by how much ??

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  DeepRoots on May 18th 2013, 3:27 am

I own both (429 and a 390)
Pros for the FE that make it better than a 385:
1. Little bit lighter with an aluminum intake
2. They looks SO much cooler. Nothing looks better than an FE with pentroof valve covers an an oval aircleaner
3. Pretty stout in stock form (with the exception of some smog units)

Pros for the 385 engine
1. Can be made freaking huge, a 390 can be made into a 445, but a 429 can hit 100ci larger on average
2. Nearly all 385 heads can be made to flow a substantial amount more than the equivalent FE heads
3. The aftermarket has continued to support 385's. There is plenty of stuff for the FE, but it is generally more expensive, and the development hasn't had the r&d put into it like the 385's.
4. Fe's require a good bit more specific knowledge to install and run.
5. 385's have a massive bore compared to an FE. a 429 has over .100 larger bore than even the FE's 427. Obviously, you can have larger valves etc etc on account of this
6. 429/460 block = $150-$300 427 block= $2000


In the end I love them both... if I had the money, I'd strictly be into the FE's. my 76 F100 has a 390 and it is an awesome engine. Runs hard enough for a daily driver and gets 14mpg doing it. My 63.5 Galaxie has a 429. I'd have loved to had a huge 427ci FE in it, but I simply don't have the $10k needed to get there, so i went with the cheap power.

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  boker on May 18th 2013, 3:32 am

Good info , I was looking at the ports on a set of eldbrock 390 heads 170cc ???? My 5.0 had bigger ports than that , looks like they would've went a little bigger ???

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  466cj on May 18th 2013, 4:28 am

You cannot compare ports between different types of heads by looking at runner volume. Part of what usually is the head is the intake on an FE. There are some real FE power houses out there, but gets expensive in a hurry. FE is easier to shoe horn into some cars and tend to be lighter than a 385 series. For a pickup those things don't matter too much. The 385 series is just less expensive to build until you get into all the race and exotic stuff then it is about all the same - expensive Laughing


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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  DeepRoots on May 19th 2013, 3:10 am

Yeah, dont' accept a challenge to race a hot FE Razz

Honestly the 445 stroker kit made an easy 500hp FE possible. Up to that point I'd say the engine choice is a wash... want to hit over 600 + hp? the 385 is cheaper/easier simply due to being able to use a factory/junkyard block.


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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  466cj on May 19th 2013, 3:38 am

Here is a hot FE for you...

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1074.0

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  boker on May 19th 2013, 10:50 am

Thanks .. I hate to admit it but I am kinda starting to then to the fe side . I am not out to build the fast street /strip truck , a fe would be more at home in a 64 than a 385 , it be a little different to stick wirh fe

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  cletus66 on May 19th 2013, 2:39 pm

DeepRoots wrote:I own both (429 and a 390)
Pros for the FE that make it better than a 385:
1. Little bit lighter with an aluminum intake
2. They looks SO much cooler. Nothing looks better than an FE with pentroof valve covers an an oval aircleaner
3. Pretty stout in stock form (with the exception of some smog units)

Pros for the 385 engine
1. Can be made freaking huge, a 390 can be made into a 445, but a 429 can hit 100ci larger on average
2. Nearly all 385 heads can be made to flow a substantial amount more than the equivalent FE heads
3. The aftermarket has continued to support 385's. There is plenty of stuff for the FE, but it is generally more expensive, and the development hasn't had the r&d put into it like the 385's.
4. Fe's require a good bit more specific knowledge to install and run.
5. 385's have a massive bore compared to an FE. a 429 has over .100 larger bore than even the FE's 427. Obviously, you can have larger valves etc etc on account of this
6. 429/460 block = $150-$300 427 block= $2000


In the end I love them both... if I had the money, I'd strictly be into the FE's. my 76 F100 has a 390 and it is an awesome engine. Runs hard enough for a daily driver and gets 14mpg doing it. My 63.5 Galaxie has a 429. I'd have loved to had a huge 427ci FE in it, but I simply don't have the $10k needed to get there, so i went with the cheap power.



Good post. Cool


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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  rmcomprandy on May 19th 2013, 3:33 pm

I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  the Coug on May 19th 2013, 7:23 pm

I use Fe's for Boat anchors thats about all they are good for...oh they do make good $180 for junk iron....

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  466cj on May 19th 2013, 7:31 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

Guess you don't understand how Blair Patrick made 900+ HP with an FE?

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1074.0

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  466cj on May 19th 2013, 7:33 pm

the Coug wrote:I use Fe's for Boat anchors thats about all they are good for...oh they do make good $180 for junk iron....

You better stay off the FE forum. Those guys are pretty serious about those boat anchors Laughing

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  the Coug on May 19th 2013, 7:35 pm

I have had a few 427 Fe's and 428's so I know what they can't do. and make serious hp is what they can't do....

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  Nevs on May 19th 2013, 7:50 pm

466cj wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

Guess you don't understand how Blair Patrick made 900+ HP with an FE?

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1074.0

At what cost would be my question. You could do 1000 hp on a 385 series engine for a bunch less money, at least in my experience... Idea
I don't have a dog in this fight, spend your money as you wish. It just seems you'd get more bang for your buck with the 385 series. Jmho...worth exactly what it cost you Exclamation Laughing

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  whitefield on May 19th 2013, 7:59 pm

Not saying the FE engine is better but there are FE engines making close to 1000 n/a hp . The FE is expensive to build and very under estimated. Just my two cents!

Blair Patrick's FE 506 cid!
:



Photo quality of the dyno sheet is poor because it was taken with Blair's cell phone camera. I have never seen an 800 lb-ft FE except for my big SOHC, and that engine was 585 cubic inches. This engine is only 506 cubic inches. That is a very, very impressive torque number. And the horsepower peak of 911 HP from 6400 to 6600 RPM is also really impressive.

I spoke with Blair on the phone tonight for a while about this engine. Apparently it is basically one of his Super Stock FEs, but with more cubic inches, less compression, and a smaller cam. His normal 427-based super stock engines turn to 9000 RPM to make this kind of horsepower. Compression ratio on this engine is 13:1, and the cam is a 270@ .050" duration cam with about .700" lift. The idea behind the engine is that the reciprocating assembly and cam can be changed and the engine will turn into a legal super stocker. The heads are Blair's pro-port Edelbrock heads, and the intake is a tunnel ram style intake with two 715cfm Holleys. Blair pointed out that the heads and intake were ported and tuned together on his flow bench, to really optimize the combination.

That's about all I know at the moment, but I'm sure we'll hear more in the coming days...

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  rmcomprandy on May 19th 2013, 8:07 pm

466cj wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

Guess you don't understand how Blair Patrick made 900+ HP with an FE?

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1074.0

When MONEY is of little concern ... The Sandy Elliot, small cubic inch 385 OEM based IRON headed, Pro Stock Mustangs of 30, (not a typo; THIRTY), years ago were around 900+ horsepower.
Glidden made well over 1,200 with a 500 inch 385 wedge WAY BACK in the early 90's.

REALISTICALLY ... there is not even any contest to be had between the two type engines when power is the objective.

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  IDT-572 on May 19th 2013, 8:49 pm

You can make the same power that the FE did in that link with a stock stroke stock iron head 460.

I love the FE engines, but I know the hp per $ and total hp goes to the 460 group.

I don't think anybody can argue the point, But I don't like to hear anybody bad mouth them either, they carried the ford racing banner proudly for years. And did a great job too..........

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  whitefield on May 19th 2013, 8:58 pm

IDT-572 wrote:You can make the same power that the FE did in that link with a stock stroke stock iron head 460.

I love the FE engines, but I know the hp per $ and total hp goes to the 460 group.

I don't think anybody can argue the point, But I don't like to hear anybody bad mouth them either, they carried the ford racing banner proudly for years. And did a great job too..........


Well said ! Very Happy A BIG X2

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  QtrWarrior on May 19th 2013, 9:33 pm

whitefield wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:You can make the same power that the FE did in that link with a stock stroke stock iron head 460.

I love the FE engines, but I know the hp per $ and total hp goes to the 460 group.

I don't think anybody can argue the point, But I don't like to hear anybody bad mouth them either, they carried the ford racing banner proudly for years. And did a great job too..........


Well said ! Very Happy A BIG X2

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  bluef100fe on May 19th 2013, 9:38 pm

X3 what blake said.... they can make big power but it takes big money and the 385 series is a better platform than the FE and It should be.... ford came out with it to replace the FE. I like them because they are different, they are the road less traveled, and they have a lot of racing history. There's also a lot of people that think they can't be built to run hard and that's their opinion. I am pretty happy with my junk boat anchor. If your after a 450-500 hp/tq FE it doesn't take anything too special. My stock stroke iron headed factory intake 390 makes 450ish hp/tq and just pushed my 3800 lb f100 to a 7.64 @ 87.48 this weekend at the 2013 ford shootout in hardinsburg and the air was far from ideal. Its gone faster at my home track. Anyway either engine platform can provide you with a good street motor. You just got to decide what you want to use and how fast you wanna go. Good luck.

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  IDT-572 on May 19th 2013, 9:45 pm

bluef100fe wrote: X4 what blake said.... they can make big power but it takes big money and the 385 series is a better platform than the FE and It should be.... ford came out with it to replace the FE. I like them because they are different, they are the road less traveled, and they have a lot of racing history. There's also a lot of people that think they can't be built to run hard and that's their opinion. I am pretty happy with my junk boat anchor. If your after a 450-500 hp/tq FE it doesn't take anything too special. My stock stroke iron headed factory intake 390 makes 450ish hp/tq and just pushed my 3800 lb f100 to a 7.64 @ 87.48 this weekend at the 2013 ford shootout in hardinsburg and the air was far from ideal. Its gone faster at my home track. Anyway either engine platform can provide you with a good street motor. You just got to decide what you want to use and how fast you wanna go. Good luck.

Fixed it for ya Very Happy

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  bluef100fe on May 19th 2013, 10:16 pm

Thanks blake.... mike treed me lol.

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  pigs521bbf on May 19th 2013, 11:00 pm

whitefield wrote: Not saying the FE engine is better but there are FE engines making close to 1000 n/a hp . The FE is expensive to build and very under estimated. Just my two cents!

Blair Patrick's FE 506 cid!
:



Photo quality of the dyno sheet is poor because it was taken with Blair's cell phone camera. I have never seen an 800 lb-ft FE except for my big SOHC, and that engine was 585 cubic inches. This engine is only 506 cubic inches. That is a very, very impressive torque number. And the horsepower peak of 911 HP from 6400 to 6600 RPM is also really impressive.

I spoke with Blair on the phone tonight for a while about this engine. Apparently it is basically one of his Super Stock FEs, but with more cubic inches, less compression, and a smaller cam. His normal 427-based super stock engines turn to 9000 RPM to make this kind of horsepower. Compression ratio on this engine is 13:1, and the cam is a 270@ .050" duration cam with about .700" lift. The idea behind the engine is that the reciprocating assembly and cam can be changed and the engine will turn into a legal super stocker. The heads are Blair's pro-port Edelbrock heads, and the intake is a tunnel ram style intake with two 715cfm Holleys. Blair pointed out that the heads and intake were ported and tuned together on his flow bench, to really optimize the combination.

That's about all I know at the moment, but I'm sure we'll hear more in the coming days...

does any have Blair's contact info??

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  466cj on May 19th 2013, 11:01 pm

IDT-572 wrote:You can make the same power that the FE did in that link with a stock stroke stock iron head 460.

I love the FE engines, but I know the hp per $ and total hp goes to the 460 group.

I don't think anybody can argue the point, But I don't like to hear anybody bad mouth them either, they carried the ford racing banner proudly for years. And did a great job too..........

Not debating the 385 series is the better platform and can be done for less $$$. Do take issue with saying cannot be done as it can and has or that the cost would be unrealistic. The typical guy will spend many times upwards of $10k on a 900 hp 385 series engine. Will say regarding your stock block stock iron head making 900 hp you will need Iron CJ heads and more cam to make an honest 900 hp. Not quite any old JY 460 going to make 900 hp.

That Blair Patrick engine did the number with ported Eddie heads and TR. It really is not a very radical engine. Really the extra cost is in the need for an aftermarket block, crank, and whatever he charges for the porting. I have to wonder what he charges for it.

I agree the FE deserves respect. Much of Fords total performance was achieved this the FE, even winning Le Mans. It also has a heck of a following and aftermarket for an out dated dinosaur.

I decided on a 385 because cost of a good 427 block kills the deal on a 600 - 700 HP deal which can be done with a stock 460 block and crank. If was not for that I'd do a 454 FE as it fits better, lighter, and more vintage parts available for it. If Ford used 427's in everything instead of 390's be a heck of a closer horse race Cool

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Re: Fe vs 385 ?

Post  whitefield on May 19th 2013, 11:18 pm

pigs521bbf wrote:
whitefield wrote: Not saying the FE engine is better but there are FE engines making close to 1000 n/a hp . The FE is expensive to build and very under estimated. Just my two cents!

Blair Patrick's FE 506 cid!
:



Photo quality of the dyno sheet is poor because it was taken with Blair's cell phone camera. I have never seen an 800 lb-ft FE except for my big SOHC, and that engine was 585 cubic inches. This engine is only 506 cubic inches. That is a very, very impressive torque number. And the horsepower peak of 911 HP from 6400 to 6600 RPM is also really impressive.

I spoke with Blair on the phone tonight for a while about this engine. Apparently it is basically one of his Super Stock FEs, but with more cubic inches, less compression, and a smaller cam. His normal 427-based super stock engines turn to 9000 RPM to make this kind of horsepower. Compression ratio on this engine is 13:1, and the cam is a 270@ .050" duration cam with about .700" lift. The idea behind the engine is that the reciprocating assembly and cam can be changed and the engine will turn into a legal super stocker. The heads are Blair's pro-port Edelbrock heads, and the intake is a tunnel ram style intake with two 715cfm Holleys. Blair pointed out that the heads and intake were ported and tuned together on his flow bench, to really optimize the combination.

That's about all I know at the moment, but I'm sure we'll hear more in the coming days...

does any have Blair's contact info??

He lives in South Pitsburg TN




BLAIR PATRICK RACING
7680 Highway 156
South Pittsburg, TN 37380
(423) 837-1514

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