Exh VAlve ?

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lash caps

Post  460pulling on August 9th 2013, 10:43 am

Im by no means an expert but to me the valve locks on the exhaust look recessed as to allow the use of lash caps? am I right or wrong?

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 9th 2013, 10:58 am

c.evans wrote:The intakes are obliviously titanium Victorys.  A magnet should stick to the tip of the valve when the hardened tips are installed.  To me the stainless steel exhaust valve looks like a Ferrea valve, but maybe it could be a Victory valve.  So step one is to find out for sure who the manufacturer of the exhaust valve is. R&R the exhaust valve and look for a lazer etched part number up by the tip in the area of the keepers.

Next item, the greater the alloy of stainless (EV4 vs EV8 etc.) the softer or more mallable the stainless steel valves are and the more they need tip protection.  My understanding is that some stainless steel valves are induction hardened, and others actually have a hardened stellite tip installed, just like a titanium valve does.  Again a magnet will tell you whether or not you have that, on the stainless steel exhaust valves. By the way, high alloy stainless is not magnetic.

Big valve spring pressures are generally not going to let the exhaust valve bounce, if it were bouncing we would see a wagon spoke pattern on the tip, so bounce is the wrong diagnosis.  Lem has correctly described the problem when he said the "load" is greater when opening an exhaust valve against cylinder pressure.

I don't know that we need to try to blame anybody, and I believe the simplest solution may be as already mentioned,,, just run a lash cap on the exhausts only.  Precision size and thickness lash caps are available through either Victory 1 Performance or PPPC (Precision Products Performance Center). Both companies are in North Carolina.

Hope this helps,
Charlie
I ask victory & they said they cant install a hardened tip into the steel valve..All the valves came from victory...EA said he was gona call Ferrea and see if they could install a tip..

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 9th 2013, 10:59 am

460pulling wrote:Im by no means an expert but to me the valve locks on the exhaust look recessed as to allow the use of lash caps? am I right or wrong?
Yes the locks will accept lash caps..I asked about that way back but victory said i didnt need them with the better valves..

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Post  460pulling on August 9th 2013, 11:03 am

I agree that if you paid for something you should get it. I would be sure to look into a valve spring with the correct pressures. What Rpm are you turning the engine?

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 9th 2013, 11:15 am

c.evans wrote:Not quite so.  Coil bind is at 1.130" with those springs.  The 1178 lbs is at 1.200" open. You are opening the exhaust valve to 1.450" which is .320" away from coil bind.  The spring surge that Lem is talking about is what we see in the slow motion photography from the SpinTron machine.  I call it the Hula-Hoop because the spring is dancing around like a girl doing the Hula-Hoop.  The theory now is that the closer we operate the spring to coil bind, the less chance it has to dance around and surge.

Anyway, I still say you have a mismatch between your camshaft lift and your valve springs. Like one guy built the shortblock and didn't communicate with the cylinder head people.  Maybe you talked to the wrong tech guy at Comp Cams or something.

Charlie



I build my on motors...Have been since i was 14...56 now...I talked to BB&T before we ordered the heads from TEA....They knew my cam spec's and everything...The heads came back ready to go with the best of everything they told me..Engine runs perfect, just went back to check head stud tq before going to make some test runs..Pulled the rocker shaft assy..#5 cyl on the pass rocker, which is exh' is what i pulled off first...Then i noticed this..So off the heads came...All techs at comp told me the same thing..

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 9th 2013, 11:21 am

Lem Evans wrote:What head is this? What does the p. rod look like?

Brodix 201 head..Pushrods were sent to MAnton and they said they had to straighten a few but they were only 5thous or so out...said they were within spec...I ask if they could have been sent out that way...He said could have but not likely..They still holding my pushrods for me till i hear from TEA...

Pushrods are 7/16


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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 9th 2013, 11:26 am

460pulling wrote:I agree that if you paid for something you should get it. I would be sure to look into a valve spring with the correct pressures. What Rpm are you turning the engine?
I figured 8 or a little more...Haven't even got to test it yet...First engine out of many i have had a valve stem problem with..Ran the TFS-R head forever with over 800 lift springs, Valves looked perfect after a year of running..Different brand valve though...Some say they prefer victory on manley...

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  c.evans on August 9th 2013, 11:48 am

Blake, the rate on that spring is 746 lbs/in.

Colormebad, I still say you have a mismatch between your camshaft lift and your valve springs. You are .320" away from coil bind on that exhaust. NASCAR teams could run pro stock springs if the wanted to, but I assure you they don't. As Samuel has told you, the springs are "overkill".

If you open any new Manley valve spring box, there is a printed label on the inside lid. It reads;"Operating Parameters; Proper clearance from coil bind is critical to the performance of these valve springs. Too little clearance can overstress the part, while too much can promote spring surge. Neither is a good option. Ideal coil bind clearance is achieved at the open height listed on the label. Do not go below it and only increase it by .050" maximum if necessary."

I would also suggest that you check the roller lifters and see how they are holding up. If it were my engine, I would be changing valve springs and retainers and get this stuff right. But hey, it's your engine and you're going to do whatever you want to.

Charlie

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 9th 2013, 9:54 pm

c.evans wrote:Blake, the rate on that spring is 746 lbs/in.

Colormebad, I still say you have a mismatch between your camshaft lift and your valve springs. You are .320" away from coil bind on that exhaust. NASCAR teams could run pro stock springs if the wanted to, but I assure you they don't.  As Samuel has told you, the springs are "overkill".  

If you open any new Manley valve spring box, there is a printed label on the inside lid. It reads;"Operating Parameters; Proper clearance from coil bind is critical to the performance of these valve springs.  Too little clearance can overstress the part, while too much can promote spring surge.  Neither is a good option. Ideal coil bind clearance is achieved at the open height listed on the label. Do not go below it and only increase it by .050" maximum if necessary."

I would also suggest that you check the roller lifters and see how they are holding up. If it were my engine, I would be changing valve springs and retainers and get this stuff right.  But hey, it's your engine and you're going to do whatever you want to.

Charlie
I have looked at the lifters & rocker roller tips..All look new...TEA assured me they would be setup with the right springs for my cam before they sent them back..I couldnt reach TEA today, but did call Victory back to make sure they had sent my valves back to TEA...I ask him again about the valves & and told him most said valves couldnt be re-hardened..All he said was they can be, but your valves may not have been hardened to start with...Figured they would have knew that as soon as they pulled them out...Im gona make sure everything is right before the heads go back on, thats for sure..I cant stand half@ss anything...

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 10th 2013, 10:08 am

Does the OD of my retainers not look too small also ??


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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  Lem Evans on August 10th 2013, 10:39 am

1.500" O.D. is typical.

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  rmcomprandy on August 10th 2013, 12:38 pm

colormebad wrote:

I build my on motors...Have been since i was 14...56 now...I talked to BB&T before we ordered the heads from TEA....They knew my cam spec's and everything...The heads came back ready to go with the best of everything they told me..Engine runs perfect, just went back to check head stud tq before going to make some test runs..Pulled the rocker shaft assy..#5 cyl on the pass rocker, which is exh' is what i pulled off first...Then i noticed this..So off the heads came...All techs at comp told me the same thing..
Just curious here ... if you already know about all these things through your vast experience and talking with other people who you must obviously believe and you continue to pick arguments here ... why the hell did you even ask???

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 10th 2013, 1:19 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
colormebad wrote:

I build my on motors...Have been since i was 14...56 now...I talked to BB&T before we ordered the heads from TEA....They knew my cam spec's and everything...The heads came back ready to go with the best of everything they told me..Engine runs perfect, just went back to check head stud tq before going to make some test runs..Pulled the rocker shaft assy..#5 cyl on the pass rocker, which is exh' is what i pulled off first...Then i noticed this..So off the heads came...All techs at comp told me the same thing..
Just curious here ... if you already know about all these things through your vast experience and talking with other people who you must obviously believe and you continue to pick arguments here ... why the hell did you even ask???

Don't know what ur talking about bud! I haven't had an argument with anyone on here...Im just trying to figure out a problem and have listened and looked at everything everyone has said...Looks like you would be the onlyone tryin to start an argument....Laughing 

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  rmcomprandy on August 10th 2013, 8:01 pm

You're right ... I guess questioning the validity of just about everything told to you and answering with someone else' opinion about it, is not really arguing.

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 10th 2013, 11:23 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:You're right ... I guess questioning the validity of just about everything told to you and answering with someone else' opinion about it, is not really arguing.

Dude' not sure if your hitting the bottle this weekend, Smoking some strong weed' Your girlfriend left you? Maby you will have a whole new outlook on life when you wake up monday morning & come down off that buzz ur on...Take it easy and rest up till monday....


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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  cool40 on August 11th 2013, 1:47 am

colormebad wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:You're right ... I guess questioning the validity of just about everything told to you and answering with someone else' opinion about it, is not really arguing.
Dude' not sure if your hitting the bottle this weekend, Smoking some strong weed' Your girlfriend left you? Maby you will have a whole new outlook on life when you wake up monday morning & come down off that buzz ur on...Take it easy and rest up till monday....

lol! afro 
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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  dfree383 on August 11th 2013, 1:47 am

colormebad wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:You're right ... I guess questioning the validity of just about everything told to you and answering with someone else' opinion about it, is not really arguing.
Dude' not sure if your hitting the bottle this weekend, Smoking some strong weed' Your girlfriend left you? Maby you will have a whole new outlook on life when you wake up monday morning & come down off that buzz ur on...Take it easy and rest up till monday....

Lighten up.... We have already gone over this in another thread and the consensus is the same. Len, Sam V., Charlie Ect restated the same thing.... the springs probably are not the optimum parts based on a this camps thinking and could cause some issues. I you want to believe Comp and TEA feel free and let it eat.
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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  richter69 on August 11th 2013, 2:19 am

did someone mention weed?
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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  rmcomprandy on August 11th 2013, 10:44 am

colormebad wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:You're right ... I guess questioning the validity of just about everything told to you and answering with someone else' opinion about it, is not really arguing.
Dude' not sure if your hitting the bottle this weekend, Smoking some strong weed' Your girlfriend left you? Maby you will have a whole new outlook on life when you wake up monday morning & come down off that buzz ur on...Take it easy and rest up till monday....

Thank you ... you have totally answered my curiosity. scratch 
It seems that you simply can't keep yourself from being confrontational ... now I understand.

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  zrob90sc on August 11th 2013, 11:16 am

colormebad wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:What head is this? What does the p. rod look like?
Brodix 201 head..Pushrods were sent to MAnton and they said they had to straighten a few but they were only 5thous or so out...said they were within spec...I ask if they could have been sent out that way...He said could have but not likely..They still holding my pushrods for me till i hear from TEA...

Pushrods are 7/16

Completely off topic, but is there any clearance between your lifter cross bar and the block with both lobes are on base circle?  The picture makes it look like they're touching.
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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 11th 2013, 12:41 pm

zrob90sc wrote:
colormebad wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:What head is this? What does the p. rod look like?
Brodix 201 head..Pushrods were sent to MAnton and they said they had to straighten a few but they were only 5thous or so out...said they were within spec...I ask if they could have been sent out that way...He said could have but not likely..They still holding my pushrods for me till i hear from TEA...

Pushrods are 7/16

Completely off topic, but is there any clearance between your lifter cross bar and the block with both lobes are on base circle?  The picture makes it look like they're touching.
Yeah i will take a side view pic and let you see that one..I also looked at that pic other night and went back out to make sure there was clearance under the bars..It had clearance under all' and i pulled them all up to make sure no marks were on the block , in case they had been touching...No signs at all...I wondered if anyone else had noticed that..

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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  zrob90sc on August 11th 2013, 1:57 pm

I was just curious. If they were hanging up and the exhaust lifter wasn't riding the opening ramp properly it could "slap" the valves open. Just a shot in the dark.
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Re: Exh VAlve ?

Post  colormebad on August 11th 2013, 6:13 pm

zrob90sc wrote:I was just curious.  If they were hanging up and the exhaust lifter wasn't riding the opening ramp properly it could "slap" the valves open.   Just a shot in the dark.
I agree...When i first put the lifters in, i had to look twice to make sure they were not touching...I got down closer and checked them and could see clearance...I just rechecked them and have 40thous clearance..Wish it would have been just that only....




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