NA E85 compression limits?

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NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on August 19th 2013, 7:49 am

Does anyone have an idea or experience with a realistic limit to static compression with this 'love-hate' fuel? I say "realistic" since I understand there are many variables. But even so, quite a few people I've been in touch will say anywhere from 13.4-14.5, and some as high as 16:1. Maybe  "put on a knock sensor and find out" will be he answer. I'm no chemist, just trying to get input. Thanks.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  Rich Osmond on August 19th 2013, 8:37 am

There is a lot more involved in answering the question than static compression ratio, but with my combinations I have personally had positive results up to 14:1 (I haven't gone any higher). There is a lot of information out there so you will have to choose what to believe.

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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  69F100 on August 19th 2013, 12:43 pm

check this site they all mostly run e85

http://www.raceone85.com/
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on August 21st 2013, 8:05 am

I've been on a few sites, including that one. All seem to have both facts and some myth-busting going on, along with a ton of valuable info and insight.  But there is still a lot of unanswered questions, or at least un-clear answers. I guess that just come with more work and leaning about the fuel and its tendencies. Thanks.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on November 14th 2013, 9:31 am

Also, anyone have input on how much luck they've had (or not) with higher ratios and nitrous:?: 
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  Dave De on November 16th 2013, 9:45 am

The low EGT makes it ideal for higher compression as well as the cooling affect from the thermodynamic properties. I have heard of race only setups running 14.5 compression. As far as looking for nitrous the best thing to do is contact someone like induction solutions.
I like e85 for all reasons that you know and find the fuel at the pump to be consistent in season. My 580 is at 13.4 compression where my old 547 was at 13.6 Lem wanted it lower and I didn't argue with him. Why live on the edge for compression? If you have a fuel delivery hiccup it may burn.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on November 16th 2013, 10:09 am

Well, I'm going ahead with a 13.9 ish to one deal and plan on a 200-300.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on November 16th 2013, 10:19 am

We've both dealt w/ Eric @ Horsepower Innovations, flows and I believe races on nitrous also. Great to deal with someone local that can give solid info. I'll probably end up having him flow and tune up my current kit.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  dfree383 on November 16th 2013, 10:20 am

Better watch it with that much compression, spray and trying to run E85, you may be flirting with disaster.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on November 16th 2013, 12:53 pm

dfree383 wrote:Better watch it with that much compression, spray and trying to run E85, you may be flirting with disaster.
Well, we're gonna find out.....I know the Internet is ONLY as good as the guy typing keys, but I'm feeling more confident about it as I ask around and look at other "successful" deals. This is why I asked about e85 limits on here before, I'm thinking not many on this forum have experience with it, good or bad. Check around on YB or do a google search, there are folks saying good things about this fuel and it capabilities. One thing that is constant though, is INCONSISTENCY in fuel mix, different methods in different parts of the country.  Personally, I haven't seen PUMP E85 with less than 85% Ethanol, and as high as 90%. This is of course bad for consistency, but as long as the content is at that 85% & up level, I'm thinking I'll be good. I'm thinking this is a good subject to learn about! cheers

I have had good results in my first year, but a much milder setup: 10.8:1 521, worked from a 74n 71f @ 5-3/4#, 24*. Ended up going 84n 80f @ 5-1/2# and 21*. I'll try to get some plug pics, but I don't think I have any that I only kept in for 1 pass. This was with NGK-9's. now this is NO way a "tuned up" kit. Sorta winged it. Plugs are clean, timing looks nice.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  bb429power on November 19th 2013, 7:00 pm

People have said it can be as low as 50% but I disagree, plus, all the stations around me say it is a 70% minimum Ethanol content. I'm in S/E Michigan. I have heard 14.5:1 safely but I would also like to know as I may be setting mine up for high compression soon.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  Mike R on November 19th 2013, 9:34 pm

I'm building for E85, the local guy's running it have all told me not to worry about it, get a test kit if I want but winter blend doesn't start til late October and it's gone by early April. It's all over the place here, easy to get at most any gas station. I talked to a guy at Car Craft that was running a 14.1 BB chevy idling around the fair grounds, stop and go traffic in 90 degree weather with no fans on at 180 degrees.

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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  bb429power on November 19th 2013, 9:40 pm

Mike R wrote:I'm building for E85, the local guy's running it have all told me not to worry about it, get a test kit if I want but winter blend doesn't start til late October and it's gone by early April. It's all over the place here, easy to get at most any gas station. I talked to a guy at Car Craft that was running a 14.1 BB chevy idling around the fair grounds, stop and go traffic in 90 degree weather with no fans on at 180 degrees.
Do you know if he had a stock or high volume water pump? And how many cores did the radiator have? Mine takes longer to get heat into it for sure but it has still gotten hot while on the highway. I have a 4 core radiator, high volume pump, and mark 8 fan with a 180 thermostat. Just curious why his was staying so cool compared to mine.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  69F100 on November 20th 2013, 3:01 am

bb429power wrote:
Mike R wrote:I'm building for E85, the local guy's running it have all told me not to worry about it, get a test kit if I want but winter blend doesn't start til late October and it's gone by early April. It's all over the place here, easy to get at most any gas station. I talked to a guy at Car Craft that was running a 14.1 BB chevy idling around the fair grounds, stop and go traffic in 90 degree weather with no fans on at 180 degrees.
Do you know if he had a stock or high volume water pump? And how many cores did the radiator have? Mine takes longer to get heat into it for sure but it has still gotten hot while on the highway. I have a 4 core radiator, high volume pump, and mark 8 fan with a 180 thermostat. Just curious why his was staying so cool compared to mine.
you might be running to lean if it heats up running down the road
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  J.Toney on November 20th 2013, 7:50 am

Cruising around, mine DEFINETLY runs cooler than street gas, at least 10 degrees, sometimes seeming more. Recovery seems quicker overall also. But for what I usually do, it can and does still get "warm", all else being equal.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  powerstrokeace on November 20th 2013, 8:23 pm

if your current carb is not set up for E85 your just pissing in the wind. You must understand ( and i assume your learning) that the entire carb needs re-calibrated to work at every aspect. E85 need roughly 30-33% more fuel from the idle to the primary to secondary circuits to wide open throttle. Eric did my carb and I'm very happy with it. I just need to modify my current gas tank to hold more volume (1.7 gallons don't cut it)

Ace
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  bb429power on November 20th 2013, 9:01 pm

powerstrokeace wrote:if your current carb is not set up for E85 your just pissing in the wind. You must understand ( and i assume your learning) that the entire carb needs re-calibrated to work at every aspect. E85 need roughly 30-33% more fuel from the idle to the primary to secondary circuits to wide open throttle. Eric did my carb and I'm very happy with it. I just need to modify my current gas tank to hold more volume (1.7 gallons don't cut it)

Ace
Are you talking to me or him? Because if you're talking to me, my carb was custom built by Eric at HP-Innovations. And it seems like it's loading up on fuel so I don't think it's lean, a wideband will be installed soon though.
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  Mike R on November 20th 2013, 10:08 pm

bb429power wrote:
Mike R wrote:I'm building for E85, the local guy's running it have all told me not to worry about it, get a test kit if I want but winter blend doesn't start til late October and it's gone by early April. It's all over the place here, easy to get at most any gas station. I talked to a guy at Car Craft that was running a 14.1 BB chevy idling around the fair grounds, stop and go traffic in 90 degree weather with no fans on at 180 degrees.
Do you know if he had a stock or high volume water pump? And how many cores did the radiator have? Mine takes longer to get heat into it for sure but it has still gotten hot while on the highway. I have a 4 core radiator, high volume pump, and mark 8 fan with a 180 thermostat. Just curious why his was staying so cool compared to mine.


It was a 62 Chevy race car, no huge radiator and an electric water pump

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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  powerstrokeace on November 21st 2013, 10:42 pm

bb429power wrote:
powerstrokeace wrote:if your current carb is not set up for E85 your just pissing in the wind. You must understand ( and i assume your learning) that the entire carb needs re-calibrated to work at every aspect. E85 need roughly 30-33% more fuel from the idle to the primary to secondary circuits to wide open throttle. Eric did my carb and I'm very happy with it. I just need to modify my current gas tank to hold more volume (1.7 gallons don't cut it)

Ace
Are you talking to me or him? Because if you're talking to me, my carb was custom built by Eric at HP-Innovations. And it seems like it's loading up on fuel so I don't think it's lean, a wideband will be installed soon though.
I was talking about his set up. a wideband will do great for you.

Ace
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Re: NA E85 compression limits?

Post  supervel45 on November 25th 2013, 3:55 am

dfree383 wrote:Better watch it with that much compression, spray and trying to run E85, you may be flirting with disaster.
As was pointed out also, the fuel may vary in consistsy, if it where me I would stay away from the edge at first, and give yourself a hands on learning curve, and some cushion. Seems a little like when playing with nitro and blowers, not alot of room for error.

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