OnAllCylinders BBF 598 Build

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Post  windsor on August 27th 2013, 2:54 pm

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2013/08/15/big-ford-horsepower-part-2-installing-the-top-end-on-trick-flow-specialties-598-ford/

I have never heard/seen that site before, but just stumbled across it. Pretty neat BBF build.
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Post  windsor on August 27th 2013, 3:05 pm

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Post  dfree383 on August 27th 2013, 3:06 pm

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Post  68formalGT on August 27th 2013, 7:10 pm

windsor wrote:here's an earlier one they did with a 520 (and a 347 and a 393)  

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2012/03/14/project-strokers-wild-part-4-dyno-testing-our-ford-stroker-engines/
The new build has a lot bigger cam (and more cubes), what's everyone's estimate on horsepower and torque the 598" engine will make?
Lem, is this the head package with the thin valve stems?
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Post  windsor on August 27th 2013, 7:23 pm

windsor wrote:here's an earlier one they did with a 520 (and a 347 and a 393)  

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2012/03/14/project-strokers-wild-part-4-dyno-testing-our-ford-stroker-engines/
Really not impressed with this build too much, 750 with the old heads and 805 with the new. Used an off the shelf crane cam, meh.....
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Post  Lem Evans on August 27th 2013, 7:52 pm

68formalGT wrote:
windsor wrote:here's an earlier one they did with a 520 (and a 347 and a 393)  

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2012/03/14/project-strokers-wild-part-4-dyno-testing-our-ford-stroker-engines/
 The new build has a lot bigger cam (and more cubes), what's everyone's estimate on horsepower and torque the 598" engine will make?
 Lem, is this the head package with the thin valve stems?
They say 360 cc & 2.400" intake valve...I'd have to assume 5/16" intake stem unless something has changed .

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Post  David Cole on August 27th 2013, 8:41 pm

Not sure which came first...chicken and egg deal..... blog or magazine?

These "blogs" are the same articles written up in the IHRA's Drag Review magazine (IHRA equivalent to NHRA's National Dragster)
They have the write up as this engine will be on this year's prize car. IHRA Summit Super Series World Champ for this year will win a turn key dragster with this engine as part of their prize package. Past years have always been a generic BBC dragster. Glad to see a little love in our direction.
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Post  windsor on September 29th 2013, 1:06 am

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Post  Lem Evans on September 29th 2013, 10:23 am

Double post

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Post  Curt on September 29th 2013, 11:37 am

ATI also says the damper can free up to 12 extra horsepower thanks to more stable valvetrain timing and reduced harmonics.
I'm calling bullshit on this one. Don't sprint cars run without balancers?

I'm not saying don't run one, but I don't believe it is 12 more than a stock balancer. pirat 
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Post  David Cole on October 2nd 2013, 3:44 pm

Just wondering .......why is the power level where it's at?  Surprised there are no critiques from the forum.

My similar built 598 also is a pretty much an "off the shelf build" but made about 50 more hp and 84 ft lbs more more torque. (1069 and 920) I'm think I'm over 1100 now as one track tuning has picked the car up 4 mph (in a 2950 lb car) vs the dyno tune.

I did notice this engine has a bigger cam than mine with lot's more lift and a bigger intake valve.   Wonder if the cam is too big and puts the engine out of the sweet spot on head flow.

Just wondering....thoughts?
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Post  Lem Evans on October 2nd 2013, 4:19 pm

Did they say what the duration & LSA of the cam was?


Never mind...I see part 1 now.

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Post  Lem Evans on October 2nd 2013, 5:54 pm

David Cole wrote:Just wondering .......why is the power level where it's at?  Surprised there are no critiques from the forum.

My similar built 598 also is a pretty much an "off the shelf build" but made about 50 more hp and 84 ft lbs more more torque.  (1069 and 920)  I'm think I'm over 1100 now as one track tuning has picked the car up 4 mph (in a 2950 lb car) vs the dyno tune.

I did notice this engine has a bigger cam than mine with lot's more lift and a bigger intake valve.   Wonder if the cam is too big and puts the engine out of the sweet spot on head flow.

Just wondering....thoughts?
These are my thoughts/obervations:

The piston domes are 5.7cc smaller than the pistons I did for you. Looks like you have a compression ratio advantage.

According to the flow sheet Charlie faxed me in aug. 2010 your heads are a little better even with the smaller 2.350" valve. Smaller valve + more flow = better performance i.m.o.

Once the lift for a given head is at or very near the 'sweet spot' range lifting the valve another .040" aint gonna do much, one way or the other, besides work the valve spring harder. Also, having those .080" wall p. rods behind the big azz triple springs the net lift may not be as much as one would think.

You ring package is .043"-1/16"-3/16". The engine in question has .043-.043-3mm.....so it should have a nominal hp advantage.

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Post  David Cole on October 2nd 2013, 10:37 pm

Sounds good too me.  My machinist figured my compression out to 13.99:1   Didn't think this one would be any lower.  Thanks for the info.

I had a sense that my 7/16 .135 wall pushrods were of some help but not sure how much.   I knew the slight diff in head flow would help, just didn't think it would be that much.

For those who haven't seen it:

my head flow and dyno sheet for a very similar build to the article:

OnAllCylinders BBF 598 Build A4608X10

OnAllCylinders BBF 598 Build DynosheetC

In the graph the hp flat lined but didn't fall from 6400 on up.  Took a while but I figured it out on track.  It was very rich.  Just putting too much alky through it to burn any more.  Ended up with smaller nozzles, way different return pill and a much different high speed bypass setup.   Ended by with a smaller nozzle and smaller return bypass to use with use less fuel at a higher pressure with the high speed pressure upped by with a larger pill to keep the nozzles in a sweet spot most of the run.  Still a touch fat on the leave and the shift, but afr looks good the rest of the time.
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Post  Lem Evans on October 3rd 2013, 7:42 pm

My similar built 598 also is a pretty much an "off the shelf build".
 
Seems that it matters a lot which 'shelf' the parts come off of Smile

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Post  David Cole on October 3rd 2013, 9:45 pm

So true.  By off the shelf I meant mine is not built from
One-off parts.

Just good stuff chosen by you and others.  Parts that work well chosen by people that know.
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Post  342g on October 4th 2013, 10:18 am

David Cole wrote:Sounds good too me.  My machinist figured my compression out to 13.99:1   Didn't think this one would be any lower.  Thanks for the info.

I had a sense that my 7/16 .135 wall pushrods were of some help but not sure how much.   I knew the slight diff in head flow would help, just didn't think it would be that much.

For those who haven't seen it:

my head flow and dyno sheet for a very similar build to the article:

OnAllCylinders BBF 598 Build A4608X10

OnAllCylinders BBF 598 Build DynosheetC

In the graph the hp flat lined but didn't fall from 6400 on up.  Took a while but I figured it out on track.  It was very rich.  Just putting too much alky through it to burn any more.  Ended up with smaller nozzles, way different return pill and a much different high speed bypass setup.   Ended by with a smaller nozzle and smaller return bypass to use with use less fuel at a higher pressure with the high speed pressure upped by with a larger pill to keep the nozzles in a sweet spot most of the run.  Still a touch fat on the leave and the shift, but afr looks good the rest of the time.
Dave what brand push rod are you using, can I switch from 3/8 to 7/16 without any trouble, I was told I was getting about 22 thou. flex in my rods.
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Post  David Cole on October 4th 2013, 5:03 pm

Comp Cams 7/16. .135 wall
Only had to get some some 7/16 sized guide plates from Trick Flow.
Depending on your heads you might have to open up the pushrod holes in the heads. Slot them oval shaped up and down. My TFS 18 bolt A460 heads already had the slotting done.
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Post  res0rli9 on October 4th 2013, 5:40 pm

David Cole wrote:Comp Cams 7/16. .135 wall
Only had to get some some 7/16 sized guide plates from Trick Flow.
Depending on your heads you might have to open up the pushrod holes in the heads.  Slot them oval shaped up and down.  My TFS 18 bolt A460 heads already had the slotting done.
Do you the # for the guide plates?...........I need to get me some.

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Post  Lem Evans on October 4th 2013, 6:23 pm

TFS-54400624 7/16" plates

Even Fabio has 7/16" pushrods Suspect 

Phillip has some 7/16" .165" wall that I got him from Trend products. I'm reasonably sure comp's stuff is produced by Trend...just more money with the comp part #.

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Post  342g on October 4th 2013, 6:25 pm

David Cole wrote:Comp Cams 7/16. .135 wall
Only had to get some some 7/16 sized guide plates from Trick Flow.
Depending on your heads you might have to open up the pushrod holes in the heads.  Slot them oval shaped up and down.  My TFS 18 bolt A460 heads already had the slotting done.
I got blue thunder heads, maybe I will just go with the 3/8, 135 wall, I am using 1.80 rockers, to get a little more lift, and less flex on push rods should help a little, right?
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Post  342g on October 4th 2013, 6:26 pm

Lem Evans wrote:TFS-54400624 7/16" plates

Even Fabio has 7/16" pushrods Suspect 

Phillip has some 7/16" .165" wall that I got him from Trend products. I'm reasonably sure comp's stuff is produced by Trend...just more money with the comp part #.
Thanks Lem.
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Post  Lem Evans on October 4th 2013, 6:46 pm

342g wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:TFS-54400624 7/16" plates

Even Fabio has 7/16" pushrods Suspect 

Phillip has some 7/16" .165" wall that I got him from Trend products. I'm reasonably sure comp's stuff is produced by Trend...just more money with the comp part #.
Thanks Lem.
They are not in the league with the 7/16 stuff but, the 3/8 x .135" are a big help.....especially since the cj style heads do not have the the extra lenght of P51, A460 or C460 heads.

When the spring pressures go up and the p. rod lenghts increase the demands on the pushrods increase also.

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Post  342g on October 4th 2013, 10:03 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
342g wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:TFS-54400624 7/16" plates

Even Fabio has 7/16" pushrods Suspect 

Phillip has some 7/16" .165" wall that I got him from Trend products. I'm reasonably sure comp's stuff is produced by Trend...just more money with the comp part #.
Thanks Lem.
They are not in the league with the 7/16 stuff but, the 3/8 x .135" are a big help.....especially since the cj style heads do not have the the extra lenght of P51, A460 or C460 heads.

When the spring pressures go up and the p. rod lenghts increase the demands on the pushrods increase also.  
Do you think the blue thunder heads will accept the 7/16 rods Lem?
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Post  richter69 on October 4th 2013, 11:32 pm

make um fit, i had 2........
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