STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

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STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  mustang557 on August 30th 2013, 6:30 pm

I FINISHED UP MY 598 A-460 BUILD, SET UP ON CHASSIS DYNO, WAS ABLE TO CHECK THE STALL ON THE TORQUE CONVERTOR, LET ENGINE WARMUP, SHUT OFF TO CHECK OVER BEFORE A PULL, AND THE STARTER
GAVE OUT OR SHOULD I SAY THE TEETH ON THE FLEXPLATE. IVE HAD A LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH
MY BBF STARTER SYSTEM FOR MAY YEARS BUT I WAS FORCED TO LOAD UP THE MUSTANG AND SATURDAY
WILL BE REMOVE THE TRANS., AND REPLACE THE FLEXPLATE AND STARTER.Mad  IS THERE ANY EASY WAY TO CHECK THE STARTER GEAR MESH WITH THE PLATE? IM BEGINNING TO THINK THAT THE BELL MAY BE DRILLED
WRONG, ANYONE ONE ELSE HAD PROBLEMS LIKE THIS? I HAVE A COLLECTION OF 6 STARTERS FROM JEGS
PRO-STARTER TO MUTIPLE HIGH TORQUE 3.0 PLUS KW STARTERS. ALSO THE OTHER QUESTION IS THE FLASH
ON THE CONVERTOR WAS 5500, LET OFF AT 6100 RPMS AND THE GRAPH SHOWED 670 REAR WHEEL HORSES
MY TIMING IS AT 30 DEGREES. THE MOTOR IS A 15 PLUS TO 1 COMP., RUNNING VP 114+ SHOULD I START WITH MORE TIMING?

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Wheelie58 on August 30th 2013, 6:48 pm

I guess the first thing to ask is if you are running any type of locator plate for your starter. If not, you are much more likely to have inconsistent mesh/engagement.
Take a look...
http://www.429-460.com/t13876-bbf-starter-locator-plate-and-steel-mid-plate?highlight=locator+plate
Not tyring to just sell something...just trying to help you figure it out.
It is common to have a pile of damaged parts if the starter is just bolted to the bell.
Depending on the style of starter, you can manually pull the pinion out and hold it with a screwdriver while looking at engagement and lash. (with engine and starter OFF)Rolling Eyes 
I have also learned a lot about my setup by motoring the starter and watching evertything from below with the ignition disabled.
Most A-head race setups will like between 28 and 32 degrees of timing.
If you have a race converter built by a shop that commonly builds for Chevys, you will probably "blow through" an 8 inch converter with your 10 liter Ford. It takes a converter shop that understands what to do with (approx) 900 ft/lb of torque. I ended up with a 10 inch race converter after several 8" and 9" attempts.
Keith
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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Lem Evans on August 30th 2013, 7:16 pm

A Ford truck style starter should get the job done. Looks like this.......
 

 
If you have the newer TFS A460 heads...32*-34* seems to work good with gas. If your conv. is only stalling to 5,500 it does not sound enough....unless it is set up for spray.

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  mustang557 on August 30th 2013, 8:09 pm

THANKS FOR THE INFO., AS FOR THE STARTER LOCATOR PLATE I PURCHASED THE BEST FROM KFM AND USE IT WITH A JW ULTRA BELL WITH A PG TRANS.. AS FOR THE TIMING THE HEADS ARE MOTORSPORT A-460,
A-460 BLOCK, DRY-SUMP, PRO SYSTEMS 1300 CFM SINGLE DOMINATOR COMP. CAM .864 INT., .782 EXH.,
GROSS LIFT DURATION AT .050 288 INT., 308 EXHAUST LOBE SEPERATION 114.0. VENOLIA PISTONS, SONNEY
B. CRANK AND OLIVER RODS.

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Lem Evans on August 30th 2013, 8:12 pm

No spray?

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Lem Evans on August 30th 2013, 8:14 pm

Comp, Crane, etc cam?

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  bosshoss on August 30th 2013, 8:26 pm

I ran a JW wheel and a CSR starter, on a JW bell using a stock starter plate on my old A-head deal with fair to good success.

Usually had to replace the spring on the starter at least once a year and then I would weld up the cracked welds on the flex plate at the end of the season.

Had to be careful starting when cold trying to prevent kick backs.

One thing I learned was that closer is not always better when it comes to pinion setting at rest. need about 3/32 - 1/8 clear.
I used to try to get it as close as possible without actually touching. CSR guy told me to shim it back and it did help.

When I converted to my C heads I ended up busting the pinion bearing and chewing up the ring gear pretty bad.

Decided to step up to the Meziere 10 pitch billet flex and matching starter.

cheers So far this thing is awesome.

dkp
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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  mustang557 on August 30th 2013, 8:53 pm

REPLY FOR LEM EVANS, COMP. CAM, NO SPRAY, CAR FOXBODY BACKHALF 2775 WITH ME IN IT. RAN 8.89
WITH A 2 BOLT LINCOLN 460 .080 OVER WITH BLUE THUNDER HEADS 825-840 HP. HOPING TO DO BETTER WITH NTHIS ONE.

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Wheelie58 on August 30th 2013, 9:10 pm

mustang557 wrote:THANKS FOR THE INFO., AS FOR THE STARTER LOCATOR PLATE I PURCHASED THE BEST FROM KFM AND USE IT WITH A JW ULTRA BELL WITH A PG TRANS.. AS FOR THE TIMING THE HEADS ARE MOTORSPORT A-460,
A-460 BLOCK, DRY-SUMP, PRO SYSTEMS 1300 CFM SINGLE DOMINATOR COMP. CAM .864 INT., .782 EXH.,
GROSS LIFT DURATION AT .050 288 INT., 308 EXHAUST LOBE SEPERATION 114.0. VENOLIA PISTONS, SONNEY
B. CRANK AND OLIVER RODS.
OOops...Sorry...I can't keep up with all of these screen names.
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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  usajsb2 on September 2nd 2013, 6:05 pm

I have had the same problem with my 14-1 545 killed 2 summit starters each lasting 20 starts put a stock one in broke the first time it turned over. For me I found its the compression, cubes, and timing that kill the starters the teeth on mine were breaking off. Check it by turning the engine over with the ignition off, does it turn really well if it does get an adjustable timing controller I turn my timing down during start and it works great. I found an MSD adj timing controller on ebay for $80 I got $800 in all the starters.

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Nastynotch on September 2nd 2013, 6:24 pm

What is your ignition setup? Is the timing "locked" at full advance and do you run any type of "start retard". I found out the hard way (broken starter bendix, teeth off the flexplate) that if you run a start retard, the distributor rotor phasing has to be spot on to avoid starter "kickback". kickback is a major source of starter and flexplate damage.

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  richter69 on September 2nd 2013, 8:16 pm

the start retards work great but you must rephase the dist cap, if not the S R can make it worse.......... but will start like your grandmas buick once its right.
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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  mustang557 on September 5th 2013, 6:05 am

MY TIMING IS LOCKED AT 30 DEGREES, I PHASED THE DIST. BY MOVING THE MARK TO 30 AND ADJUSTING THE DIST. TO THE CENTER OF THE CAP POST. SHOULD I MOVE IT A LITTLE?

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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  richter69 on September 5th 2013, 8:14 am

needs to be running, drill a hole in the cap between the #1 and the center post, paint a mark on the center of the rotor, fire it up and use a timing light to center the mark in the sight hole...
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Re: STARTER AND TIMING QUESTION, 598 CI A-460

Post  Nastynotch on September 5th 2013, 9:11 am

an example of the rotor phasing procedure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWMlNwGW0tM

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