Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

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Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  gryphon68 on November 1st 2009, 12:08 pm

Thought this would be a good topic for a new thread.

What brand/part number of shorty headers have people used for turbo kits? Specifically, flipping right to left or upside down to point forward.

Mainly interested in Fox body, pics would be great. Also whether you were using a Front Engine Plate. Thanks,

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  gryphon68 on November 1st 2009, 12:22 pm

Also specific interest in A460 applications using standard BBC exhaust flange.

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on November 2nd 2009, 10:55 am

Unlike the SBF, you cannot "flip" BBF headers.

Here are some pics of my shorties. They are desisned to fit my 87 Turbo Coupe either way, but these are pics of the front exit setup with the engine plate bolted on. I do not know who made them, I got them off of an e-bay seller that lost interest in his project.

I do know that D&D can make shorties, because he made a set for jones here on the board. http://www.ddautospec.com/




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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  jones on November 9th 2009, 7:00 pm

Nothing really out there that really fits without modifications as far as "off the shelf". I got a set of mid length headers from D&D that they modified for me. (Blind guess) Then after I got the set I still felt like 1-7/8" was to small and the material was too thin. (16-18ga)

As for me, if I was going to try the turbo route again. I'd just save my money and take the car to someone that knew what they where doing. Let them build the headers out of some thick wall tubing and let them mount the turbo. Other wise I'd do a log style manifold out of some weld-bend, 90's and Tee's.

1,500-2,000 is not a bad price for a custom built Hot side. IMO now that I have ventured down the path and failed.

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  MIKE93SVT on July 15th 2011, 3:22 pm

i know this is an old thread. but i'm curious why you can't flip bbf headers like sbf's. also wondering if different headers have come out that will work

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  dfree383 on July 15th 2011, 3:30 pm

No nothing new that I've seen, Your pretty much in custom territory.
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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  whatbumper on July 15th 2011, 5:25 pm

Why flip them? If you are fabbing a system from scratch just turn a set of pre mades around and then go from there.


On another note. We charge between $4000-$7000 for turbo systems without turbo. Mild is cheaper but doesn't last as long.

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on July 16th 2011, 2:05 pm

MIKE93SVT wrote:i know this is an old thread. but i'm curious why you can't flip bbf headers like sbf's....

mike

To answer your question: The exhaust port opening is not centered between the 2 header bolts like on a SBF.

If you flip a 429-460 manifold/header, you will get port mis-alignment.

If a person was building a low buck 600-700 hp tubo build, the best cast iron manifolds to use are the D5T manifolds. They came on 1975-1978 or 1979 460's in the F-250-F-350 I believe.

I have a set, and the exhaust hole opening where the downpipe bolts up to has a true 2 1/2 inch opening..........unlike the passenger car manifolds that have a 2 1/4 in. opening.

I have been hanging on to those for awhile. They appear to work o.k. when swapped from side to side. However, the driver's side will need a 90 degree oil filter adaptor to clear the D5T manifold. No biggie.
The pass. side needs a 3/8 inch spacer between the manifold and the head to get the manifold to clear the block.

If a 466 BBF made an honest 400 hp nat. asperated, then it only needs 8 lbs of boost to make 600 hp..

Of course, this is all budget build info.
If someone wants to build an all out monster turbo set-up, just disregard the above info. Laughing
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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  MIKE93SVT on July 16th 2011, 7:56 pm

i may not have come off clear. when i said flip, i meant it as swapping the drivers side to the passenger side and vise versa. as in the pic below. still pointing down and forward. is there a misalignment with this, or just if they are inverted? may just have to try and build my own or have some fab a set otherwise

thanks
mike





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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  whatbumper on July 16th 2011, 10:02 pm

As long as everything fits thats whst i would do on a budget built.

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on July 17th 2011, 7:01 pm

MIKE93SVT wrote:i may not have come off clear. when i said flip, i meant it as swapping the drivers side to the passenger side and vise versa. as in the pic below. still pointing down and forward. is there a misalignment with this, or just if they are inverted? may just have to try and build my own or have some fab a set otherwise

thanks
mike

Mike--no problems swapping side to side except the oil filter will need a 90 deg. adaptor. I was going to use an Explorer 5.0 O.F. adaptor.

Just curious...what are your goals with your setup ? HP ? pump gas or racing fuel ? Type of heads ?
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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  MIKE93SVT on July 18th 2011, 9:35 am

setup is going into a 95 mustang that has full suspension, mini tubbed, etc.

will have a glide and 3.27 gears

at first was thinking about doing an n/a setup, but i've ended up doing a turbo setup on 2 of my previous n/a cars, so might as well do it right off the bat.

i'm starting with a freshly rebuilt d1ve 460 that is .030 over. i'm planning on keeping the stock crank, and putting some good rods and pistons in for the bottom end. i also have a set of fresh d0ve c heads, i may use these if funds run out. but will eventually get a set of tfs streets or similar.

looking to keep the cubes below 500 to avoid backpressure with a single turbo, so just a basic 472. will run a s480 or similar turbo with pump gas. goal is to run mid 9's on pump gas. so approximately 600-650 rwhp

after emailing a few companies and seeing the lack of similar builds, it looks like making the headers will be the best answer. i'm not a great fabricator, but i've built my own coldside before. so may as well take a stab at headers

the d0ve c heads have a fairly small combustion chamber in comparison to other aftermarket heads. am i better off just waiting to buy the better heads. or is there a aluminum head that will bolt on with the same characteristics as the d0ve c's? as in height and bolt pattern of exhaust port, as well as valve reliefs for the pistons?

i'm sure with some exhaust porting and spring upgrade that the d0ve c's will meet the goal easily, but looking down the road... i'll want more power and to save a few pounds at the same time. so i guess it may be smarter to save some pennies until i can just get some tfs streets, or maybe in frpp scj's.

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on July 18th 2011, 5:01 pm

MIKE93SVT wrote:setup is going into a 95 mustang that has full suspension, mini tubbed, etc.

will have a glide and 3.27 gears

at first was thinking about doing an n/a setup, but i've ended up doing a turbo setup on 2 of my previous n/a cars, so might as well do it right off the bat.

i'm starting with a freshly rebuilt d1ve 460 that is .030 over. i'm planning on keeping the stock crank, and putting some good rods and pistons in for the bottom end. i also have a set of fresh d0ve c heads, i may use these if funds run out. but will eventually get a set of tfs streets or similar.

looking to keep the cubes below 500 to avoid backpressure with a single turbo, so just a basic 472. will run a s480 or similar turbo with pump gas. goal is to run mid 9's on pump gas. so approximately 600-650 rwhp

after emailing a few companies and seeing the lack of similar builds, it looks like making the headers will be the best answer. i'm not a great fabricator, but i've built my own coldside before. so may as well take a stab at headers

the d0ve c heads have a fairly small combustion chamber in comparison to other aftermarket heads. am i better off just waiting to buy the better heads. or is there a aluminum head that will bolt on with the same characteristics as the d0ve c's? as in height and bolt pattern of exhaust port, as well as valve reliefs for the pistons?

i'm sure with some exhaust porting and spring upgrade that the d0ve c's will meet the goal easily, but looking down the road... i'll want more power and to save a few pounds at the same time. so i guess it may be smarter to save some pennies until i can just get some tfs streets, or maybe in frpp scj's.

Mike:
The reason I asked about what type of heads you are going with was mainly about the exhaust port shape.
The TFS heads are great, but they use a Cobra Jet style ex. port and the CJ port is larger than the D0VE port, so your headers you fabricate will have to match either a CJ port or the D0ve port. (unless you can buy your exh. flanges that work on both)

Edelbrock heads use the D0ve style exh. ports and Eldebrocks come in either 74 or 95 cc chambers.
The headers in my pics only fit the D0VE and Edelbrock ports and the primaries are 1 7/8. Unfortunately, I cannot use Ford Racing SCJ or TFS heads because of that. Edelbrocks are my only choice if I want to go aluminum.

If you can afford TFS streets, that would be my choice. You can use standard pistons that fit D0ve heads.
Those Ford Racing SCJ heads are priced really nice, but they require the special pistons with the Kaase P51 or FRPP SCJ intake valve reliefs.

Another alternative is to order pistons with BOTH sets of intake valve reliefs so you could run Ford Racing SCJ heads or Kaase P51s as well as TFS streets.

You could try D&D headers and see if they will make a set for you, or buy the flanges and make your own headers.

Here is a pic of a 460 piston with both sets of valve reliefs. Jon Kaase once said at a tech seminar he had 3 sets of valve reliefs in the pistons on his dyno engine and those extra nothes didn't affect power much at all. I have no reason to doubt the king of BBF's. Very Happy


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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  MIKE93SVT on July 19th 2011, 12:46 pm

thanks for all the info. so if i'm picking this up, then.... i can build it with the d0ve heads i have, even run it with those... and then i could swap them out for some edelbrocks down the road. using the 74cc versions, my compression would stay very similar. and i would have the same piston to valve clearance, given the normal range based on cam and valve size. as well as my intake staying the same.

if all that works out, it would be a great way to step into the turbo setup without blowing some more serious cash than i already am. i'll save 2500 whenever possible.

thanks
mike

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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on July 19th 2011, 5:05 pm

MIKE93SVT wrote:thanks for all the info. so if i'm picking this up, then.... i can build it with the d0ve heads i have, even run it with those... and then i could swap them out for some edelbrocks down the road. using the 74cc versions, my compression would stay very similar. and i would have the same piston to valve clearance, given the normal range based on cam and valve size. as well as my intake staying the same.

if all that works out, it would be a great way to step into the turbo setup without blowing some more serious cash than i already am. i'll save 2500 whenever possible.

thanks
mike

You are correct Mike.
The Edelbrocks allow you to use the same shortblock (and headers) as your D0VE heads. (just check your valve to piston clearance)

I am not sure if anyone makes header flanges that fit both D0VE and CJ exhaust ports. I do know that the Hooker 6224 Fox swap headers fit either CJ or D0VE ports tho, so surely someone can make those.

Using your D0VE heads with a decent porting job is a great start.
You don't have to go hog wild on the port job because you have the turbo to help you. The most attention should be on the exhaust side tho. Your intake side already looks nice.

Also, if you want to run your stock hood, the Edelbrock Torker II intake is an excellent choice. I have never done a 460 swap into a SN95, but a few months ago I finished fabbing up solid motor mounts to fit a 460 w/ Torker II intake into my 91 Mustang Coupe and everything (including the Procharger carb bonnet) fits under the stock hood. (it even clears the factory hood blanket) cheers
You should be able to get a 460 under the stock hood of your 95 GT even easier than that.

Proof:



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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  8liter on July 24th 2011, 1:22 pm

Do you have anymore pics of the mounts on this car? Any trans/ground issues?
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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  83-88T-Bird Guy on July 24th 2011, 9:06 pm

8liter wrote:Do you have anymore pics of the mounts on this car? Any trans/ground issues?

Casey:
Here's a couple of pics before the gussets were added and final paint. I haven't finished the car. I used 1 1/2 inch k-frame spacers. Can't answer your question about ground clearance yet. Trans has more clearance due to being dropped over an inch.




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Re: Shorty Headers for Turbo Hotside

Post  8liter on July 27th 2011, 10:44 pm

Yea, the kmember spaces really help. I like all the space you've got between the motor and firewall.
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