1970 460SCJ?

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1970 460SCJ?

Post  supervel45 on December 25th 2013, 9:02 pm

Was this ever tried by Ford to go against the Chevy 454?

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  dfree383 on December 25th 2013, 9:10 pm

Probably, but it wasn't a production piece.

I'm sure ford engineering tried a bunch of different stuff.
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Yes

Post  XEngr on December 25th 2013, 9:20 pm

Ford tried that as far as I know. There is also some paperwork reference to a 500 cu in SCJ engine for 1972 or 73.

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  supervel45 on December 25th 2013, 9:21 pm

dfree383 wrote:Probably, but it wasn't a production piece.

I'm sure ford engineering tried a bunch of different stuff.
I know it was not produced. I was just wondering if there is any articles written in that era about it? Surely Ford must have played with the idea, after the 454 came out in 1970? Maybe they knew the muscle car race was over and, did'nt? If the emissions mandates would have been a couple of years away, maybe they would have made some.

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  dfree383 on December 25th 2013, 9:25 pm

There are references in early racing paper work adding 460 rotating assemblies, from my understanding it was quite popular
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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  LivermoreDave on December 25th 2013, 9:42 pm

As simple as it is to do you would think Ford toyed with the idea at some point. It was thought that Pontiac offered a few of the magazines a few 1965 GTO's with the 421/376 engine for magazine test cars!

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  supervel45 on December 25th 2013, 10:29 pm

Does anybody remember what year PAW brought out the 490 Gorilla shortblocks?

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  Super Snake Steve on December 25th 2013, 11:26 pm

Well I'd put a 502SCJ against 502 chebby and old day of the week
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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  466cj on December 26th 2013, 1:51 am

Think have to keep in mind some history of the time. NASCAR had a 430ci limit when the 385 series came out in mid 1967 hence a 429. Boss 429 was in the works to replace the FE to deal with Chrysler's Hemi. The 460 was exclusive to the Lincoln until sometime in 1973.

By 1970 emissions laws and insurance companies were putting the nails in the coffin of the high performance engines. In '71 saw the shift to low compression engines to comply with NOx emissions and the coming need for compatibility with unleaded gasoline. In 1973 oil embargo made these big gas drinkers not too popular. On top of it by as early as 1969 the OEM's know NASCAR intended to move to a 366ci limit. There actually were some 366ci BBF's made for racing.

If the reality of the time had been delayed a few more years likely would have seen a 460cj as well as a larger bore block, as well as a Boss 400 and a few other neat engines. Have been told Ford had made some prototypes with a larger 4.500" bore as a possible production engine, but had some problems and was canceled. Of course there is also the Can Am 494 racing stuff too.

The 385 series just had some poor timing. Guess we are lucky to have the Boss 429 and CJ stuff at all.

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  supervel45 on December 26th 2013, 6:00 am

Good post 466CJ. I did not know about a 430Cid rule in NASCAR. I was going to bring up they had the 429Boss plus 302Boss as well as the Cleveland plus the 351W and 400, on (Ford's)their plate, in a 3 year time frame, and that they may not of not have had room for the 460SCJ. I was thinking since the LS5 and LS6 came out in 1970, a 460CJ and 460SCJ would be a logical counter for Ford. Chevy dropped their compression across the board in 1971, and Ford in 1972, so the extra cubic inchs makes sense to help keep the power up to previous levels somewhat. The Chevy LS7(454) was intended to go in the 1970 Corvette, and be top dog over the LS6 Chevelle, but did not make it either. The Opec oil embargo of 1973, I think was the killer, more than insurance and emissions. The 455 Pontiac Trams Am lived on, until the mid 70's is the reason I believe this. Uncanty you mentioned a 400 Boss, I was thinking about that too, a 400M with 4V heads for a Christmas wish list thread. When Ford came out with the 400 in 1971, I think they were planning to make it bigger, not destroke it to a 351M, is why the block was made so tall, as they allready had two 351's? Then again they might have just wanted to replace the 390, and phase out all the FE's, but that took till 1977 in light trucks,so who knows.

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  jeffgfg on December 26th 2013, 11:10 am

There were several Ford sponsored 460 SCJ engines built back in the early 70's in fact Ford offered flat top forged pistons just for putting a 460 crank in your 429 SCJ. They were TRW's with the pin moved up and the same notches as the 429 SCJ pistons. The pistons kept the same 11 to 1 compression as the 429. They offered them through their old "Muscle Parts" program. They also showed you how to make more power by using factory parts. Ak Miller did a build up in PHR magazine using Fords guide lines from the Muscle parts program and even tested it in a 70 Cyclone. It was a pretty stout piece. The neat thing about the Muscle parts program was they showed how much horse power each change would make. This is where I first read that Ported DOVE heads would flow better on the street that my SCJ's!!!

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  Paul Kane on December 26th 2013, 10:27 pm

supervel45 wrote:1970 460SCJ?...Was this ever tried by Ford...?
Ford developed the 460 King Cobra (a 460 version of the 429 SCJ) which was supposed to debut in 1972 (or 1973).  There was even a 6-pack manifold (3x2-BBL) developed.  Production was killed off, probably by emissions regulations and rising fuel costs.


XEngr wrote:...There is also some paperwork reference to a 500 cu in SCJ engine for 1972 or 73.
It is my understanding that the 385 Series was originally developed with the intention of it being as large as 500 CI, so as to go after Cadilllac's 500 CI engine during the "displacement wars" (probably for a Continental).  The 385 Series engine never got that big as far as production is concerned, and probably for the same reasons as noted above.


jeffgfg wrote:There were several Ford sponsored 460 SCJ engines built back in the early 70's in fact Ford offered flat top forged pistons just for putting a 460 crank in your 429 SCJ. They were TRW's with the pin moved up and the same notches as the 429 SCJ pistons. The pistons kept the same 11 to 1 compression as the 429. They offered them through their old "Muscle Parts" program...
D3JE-XXXX-XX pistons, I have a list of all the part numbers somewhere. There were flat tops and even "D"-shaped dish tops (yes, even back then).
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supervel45 wrote:Does anybody remember what year PAW brought out the 490 Gorilla shortblocks?
Wow, decades ago. I know the person who was originally offset stroking the crankshafts and supplying PAW with those stroker kits; he's semi-retired now but still owns a rod & crank shop in Los Angeles. The PAW stroker kits were pretty popular and a good way to go back in their day. But then, PAW bought their own machining equipment and moved all their machining in-house. Overnight, those stroker kits went to crap and that's when the poor reviews started to surface about PAW stroker kits, short blocks, etc.

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Re: 1970 460SCJ?

Post  LivermoreDave on December 27th 2013, 2:10 pm

Lunati had a lot of that going on years ago too. I delivered many crankshafts to Lunati from a supplier in the Dallas area.

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