scat 4.5 crank

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scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 26th 2013, 9:02 pm

Are scat cranks junk ?

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Lem Evans on December 26th 2013, 9:04 pm

No sir.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  kim on December 26th 2013, 9:23 pm

Aside from cutting almost 3 lbs off my billet SCAT I would like to think they are pretty good pieces. Mine has taken a little abuse and hung in there.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 26th 2013, 9:54 pm

What is hp capability

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  nitrous.f on December 26th 2013, 10:07 pm

which crank? the cast steel or the forged steel? cast steel will work to about 850-900hp!
forged will be good to about 1300hp-1500hp! study 
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 26th 2013, 10:55 pm

Forged

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Dave De on December 27th 2013, 10:30 am

My last 4.5 forged Scat crank needed 3 slugs of mallory which is costly and unusual. I know they are strong pieces and that's what I wanted. I am hearing great things about the Lunati crank today. Anyone buying a new crank should consider them from the cost point of value. They dont need weight added to them and the machining is right out of the box. Lunati cost is around $765.

Lem probably has Scat forged units in stock and will sell them at an attractive price. The Scat crank is at the top of the list for strength when considering all of the Chinese cranks.
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  rmcomprandy on December 27th 2013, 11:03 am

Dave De wrote:

Lem probably has Scat forged units in stock and will sell them at an attractive price. The Scat crank is at the top of the list for strength when considering all of the Chinese cranks.

Be mindful, SCAT "billet" cranks are NOT Chinese.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Lem Evans on December 27th 2013, 11:09 am

Unless someone has done some destructive testing assigning a HP # the Scat, or other crankshafts, would be just opinion. The question seldom ask is, how long will a given part last at a certain HP and RPM levels. A crankshaft, rod, etc. can be alive for 189 passes and dead at 190.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  mikey hefner on December 27th 2013, 2:14 pm

so a forged Lunati is just as good as the forged Scat as far as being able to handle say a 1000 horse if one tried to build an engine capable of producing that kind of power? I was discussing crank options with Lem the other day for a 545 build w/4.5 stroke crank. just wondering which would be my best choice for 850na with some nitrous?

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 27th 2013, 3:14 pm

I have a Eliminator premier block with the billet caps a 460 heads full port with scat or lunati not sure yet I think they are equal in quality from what I hear ill be 1100 na hp or + I HOPE

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Paul Kane on December 27th 2013, 5:00 pm

MustangDan wrote:...scat or lunati not sure yet I think they are equal in quality from what I hear...
Same forgings machined on the same machines by the same machinists, just different final machining specs to meet each of the two different company's product preferences.
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 27th 2013, 5:17 pm

That's what I was thinking
Thanks . Paul

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Lem Evans on December 27th 2013, 8:48 pm

Paul Kane wrote:
MustangDan wrote:...scat or lunati not sure yet I think they are equal in quality from what I hear...
Same forgings machined on the same machines by the same machinists, just different final machining specs to meet each of the two different company's product preferences.
 
Several years ago, six-seven, the prevailing wisdom [internet fact] was that all China crankshafts [Scat/RPM/Eagle/etc.] were the same forging and the only difference was the finish machining.
 
Shortly after Eagle introduced their forging I ordered one and took it to JetBoat Bob's shop and set it beside a Scat forging on a work bench for a compare. Bob, Blake Cartwright [IDT-572] and I, after considering position and shape of the unmachined areas of the crankshaft, agreed that in no way did the forging come from the same tooling.
 
Paul, is this something you have been 'advised on' or is this from direct observation?  Things very well could have changed but, after seeing what I saw I don't assume anything.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Dave De on December 28th 2013, 1:53 am

Paul Kane wrote:
MustangDan wrote:...scat or lunati not sure yet I think they are equal in quality from what I hear...
Same forgings machined on the same machines by the same machinists, just different final machining specs to meet each of the two different company's product preferences.
 
Sinse I've been playing around with 385 series 8 years ago all of the cranks were different forgings and Lunati wasnt around just Scat, Eagle, and RPM (all chinese). I tried to check on Lunati when it came out and was told incorrectly that it was the same part as offered by RPM. I'm not sure whos crank Probe brands or Ohio Crankshaft.
To think that competitiors would buy a piece tooled up from their competition is difficult to imagine ever happening.
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Paul Kane on December 28th 2013, 2:14 am

Lem Evans wrote:
Paul Kane wrote:
MustangDan wrote:...scat or lunati not sure yet I think they are equal in quality from what I hear...
Same forgings machined on the same machines by the same machinists, just different final machining specs to meet each of the two different company's product preferences.
 
Several years ago, six-seven, the prevailing wisdom [internet fact] was that all China crankshafts [Scat/RPM/Eagle/etc.] were the same forging and the only difference was the finish machining.
 
Shortly after Eagle introduced their forging I ordered one and took it to JetBoat Bob's shop and set it beside a Scat forging on a work bench for a compare. Bob, Blake Cartwright [IDT-572] and I, after considering position and shape of the unmachined areas of the crankshaft, agreed that in no way did the forging come from the same tooling.
 
Paul, is this something you have been 'advised on' or is this from direct observation?  Things very well could have changed but, after seeing what I saw I don't assume anything.
Lem, not only do I remember a thread where you had two forged crankshaft pics (1 Scat and 1 Eagle) for comparison purposes, but I also replied in that same thread so as to spell out to everyone the exact point you were making--that it ain't just a single die making the forgings. I didn't think so then, I don't think so now, and that is not what I am suggesting here in this thread.

Anyone who really thinks there is only one sledgehammer crankshaft for the 385 Series and which is simply being machined differently by all the different suppliers need only go to alibaba and type "forged crankshaft" into the search field and see for themselves the thousands of hits they get. If there are thousands of offerings, it simply cannot be that just one of those countless foundries is slamming out all the 385 Series forgings.

As to your question whether my post above is simply internet rhetoric or fact, I'll answer that in a single word:
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FACT.

Incidentally, I don't see what the big deal is if one company makes another's final product to their specifications. For the end user, it gives us options just the same. In fact as far as I'm concerned it would be no secret if, for example, Nicson were casting and machining our Quick Change Timing Covers; the customer would still need to come to HFD if our specific product specifications were just what he needed.

So yes, this has been confirmed on more than on occasion, by more than one "rep" while on the premises where the machines are, and which is where the final products are packaged accordingly.  Cool


Last edited by Paul Kane on December 28th 2013, 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Paul Kane on December 28th 2013, 2:15 am

Dave De wrote:To think that competitiors would buy a piece tooled up from their competition is difficult to imagine ever happening.
In this day of JIT and ulta-lean business practices, it happens more than you can possibly imagine.
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  DILLIGASDAVE on December 28th 2013, 4:57 am

Paul Kane wrote:.......I don't see what the big deal is if one company makes another's final product to their specifications......
Paul Kane wrote:
Dave De wrote:To think that competitors would buy a piece tooled up from their competition is difficult to imagine ever happening.
In this day of JIT and ulta-lean business practices, it happens more than you can possibly imagine.

I saw something similar happening for years where I used to work.

I worked for a railroad repair contractor doing quick turn-around boxcar repairs at one Miller brewery plant for over 20 years. During that time I saw Millers brew, package, and ship short runs of a few different competitors beers for them from time to time.

Why would a beer company (or any company for that matter) ask their competition to make their product for them?, and why would the competition agree to do it?.......simple answer is one company had a need, & paid the other company the right amount of money to get the job done.
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  Lem Evans on December 28th 2013, 10:29 am

The Lunati folks have said that they do not use the same forging as Scat. So, I'd quess it's just a matter if 'they' are to be belived.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 28th 2013, 10:57 am

Cali has a new crank said its good tp 2000 hp

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  rmcomprandy on December 28th 2013, 12:26 pm

Paul Kane wrote:
Dave De wrote:To think that competitiors would buy a piece tooled up from their competition is difficult to imagine ever happening.
In this day of JIT and ulta-lean business practices, it happens more than you can possibly imagine.

I remember way back in the 70's Carter Carburetor Company manufacturing QuadraJet carburetors for Rochester when the demand got high enough.
At Holley, we made several pieces for WEBER, just not the entire carburetors until Holley bought a license to manufacture some for the domestic market.

When SCAT ran out of their own 385 forgings they purchased some from a rival forging house to meet the demand at the time; (a demand that those crankshaft companies refused to believe was there until they entered the market with one).

YES ... it happens "all the time".

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 28th 2013, 9:41 pm

Well a lot of people are telling me scat cranks and rods are really not good after 100hp ?

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  cool40 on December 28th 2013, 10:17 pm

MustangDan wrote:Well a lot of people are telling me scat cranks and rods are really not good after 100hp ?
then get a bryant or crower.  Idea 
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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  mikey hefner on December 28th 2013, 10:27 pm

A buddy of mine ran a Scat forged crank and rods way past a 1000 and sone high rpms too.

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Re: scat 4.5 crank

Post  MustangDan on December 28th 2013, 11:36 pm

How long did he run them ?

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