Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 14th 2014, 2:06 am

With Direct Fuel Injection being the latest and greatest innovation for the internal combustion engine, could a cylinder head for the BBF be made to work. If it could be done, it would seem that HP as well as mileage could be dramatically increased. I am well aware that the limited interest would not make it cost effective, at this time. I would like to know how involed it would be, and if it is theoretically workable with the stock water passage's and valvetrain? It would seem that if someting could be made workable, it would not be hard to transfer to the SBF engines. GM has intoduced this to the new Corvette, and I believe it is still an LS based engine, but not certain.

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  whitefield on January 14th 2014, 7:50 am

whitefield
whitefield

Posts : 2228
Join date : 2009-08-23
Age : 51

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 14th 2014, 8:47 am

That was a good link and article. With not much demand for elecronic fuel injection for drag racing, at least with the old school engines, it probably will never be explored. The Boss 9 Kaase heads for the 460 suprised me when they came out, did not think the demand would be there either, but who could resist a sexy shotgun motor, based on a easy to find 460. If the DI ever goes retro I guess the SBC will be the test case?

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  schmitty on January 15th 2014, 12:13 am

The Gen II Thor head has provisions for down nozzle direct injection, and I believe it can be done with Profiler 205's and C's too.
schmitty
schmitty

Posts : 4538
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 48
Location : Holdrege, NE

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 15th 2014, 12:30 am

Did not know this. Have you ever come across one injected yet, or anyone planning to?

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  schmitty on January 15th 2014, 12:33 am

Lots of puller guys do it because they are using alcohol
schmitty
schmitty

Posts : 4538
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 48
Location : Holdrege, NE

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 15th 2014, 12:40 am

I was thinking with gasoline with an o2 sensor, ecm, TPS ect. Do they run all of this, I don't keep up with the puller trucks. DI is all new to me.

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  schmitty on January 15th 2014, 12:47 am

No. I'm sure some are running data loggers with EGT channels, but not EFI with O2 sensors
schmitty
schmitty

Posts : 4538
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 48
Location : Holdrege, NE

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 15th 2014, 1:08 am

Did you read the link Whitefield posted, it was pretty good. The part about keeping knock down caught my eye, could run higher compression on pump gas. I am still waiting on ECM totally controlled valves, with lift capiablity, to replace VVT. No camshaft at all. That may still be aways off, or never though?

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  Diggindeeper on January 15th 2014, 9:56 am

Puller organizations in North America (at least most of them) don't allow EFI except sometimes at a stock level
Right wrong or indifferent they just use mechanical injection. Versions of Enderle, Hilborn, geradot, etc...
In Europe it may be different
Diggindeeper
Diggindeeper

Posts : 800
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 38
Location : Just outside Winnipeg, Mb

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  birdracer on January 15th 2014, 11:32 am

I think you fellows are confusing injection with "direct injection"..direct injection as used by ford or OEM is injecting fuel into the combustion chamber(think diesel),no fuel upstream of the intake seat....down nozzle type injection sprays fuel upstream of the intake valve,typically right at the back of the intake valve....hope this helps ..Brian

birdracer

Posts : 42
Join date : 2009-09-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  dfree383 on January 15th 2014, 1:04 pm

it's totally possible...... But who has the budget to do it?


Last edited by dfree383 on January 15th 2014, 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
dfree383
dfree383
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 14235
Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  Paul Kane on January 15th 2014, 1:20 pm

Ford began developing early direct injection systems as far back as the 1970's, and the development was even intended for use in the 385 Series engine program.  Back then, the computer technology wasn't sophisticated enough for their concept.  I think it was called proco or procom or something like that, for "programmed combustion."

Strategically locating the injector in the combusion chamber would essentially require a new cylinder head design altogher.  One might be able to retrofit an existing head design but the effort and cost would be prohibitive, and the final performance results of such a retrofit effort would be downright poor compared to today's GDI technology. You will also need a new 385 Series piston design intended for GDI, etc.
Paul Kane
Paul Kane

Posts : 864
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  whitefield on January 15th 2014, 5:20 pm

supervel45 wrote:Did you read the link Whitefield posted, it was pretty good. The part about keeping knock down caught my eye, could run higher compression on pump gas. I am still waiting on ECM totally controlled valves, with lift capiablity, to replace VVT. No camshaft at all. That may still be aways off, or never though?


I am too ! many years ago my best Friend and I were discussing this very subject. I am talking about in early 90's . His words were when do you think they will start using selonoids or electric motors to open and close valves instead of camshafts ? scratch  study 
whitefield
whitefield

Posts : 2228
Join date : 2009-08-23
Age : 51

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  dfree383 on January 15th 2014, 6:13 pm

whitefield wrote:
supervel45 wrote:Did you read the link Whitefield posted, it was pretty good. The part about keeping knock down caught my eye, could run higher compression on pump gas. I am still waiting on ECM totally controlled valves, with lift capiablity, to replace VVT. No camshaft at all. That may still be aways off, or never though?


I am too ! many years ago my best Friend and I were discussing this very subject. I am talking about in early 90's . His words were when do you think they will start using selonoids or electric motors to open and close valves instead of camshafts ? scratch  study 

It's already been done
dfree383
dfree383
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 14235
Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  466cj on January 15th 2014, 6:27 pm

Think before tinkering with direct fuel injection need to come up with a 4V dual overhead cam head for the 460. Safe to say that would make a few more HP for the old 385 series. DI is a lot to do with emissions and as I understand it not easy to get right. Some designs have issues with carbon build up on the intake valves too.

466cj

Posts : 391
Join date : 2011-05-01
Location : San Antonio, TX.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  torino501 on January 15th 2014, 10:29 pm

I think back in the late 90's Mercedes benz already had it in concept and a patent...and I think Navistar had a prototype medium duty truck with the solenoid actuated valve technology. at the time all they had was idle,mid throttle and wot...?I don't think we had the computer speed back them like we have today.i think the money involved to get it into production killed it... durability and longevity wise its wasn't feasible...

torino501

Posts : 396
Join date : 2013-05-08
Location : THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  466cj on January 16th 2014, 12:03 am

Kind of like cylinder deactivation. Caddy did it way back what in the late 70's with the 8-6-4 V8 and was a total mess. Now it is done without any problem. Just a matter of tech catching up with the ideas.

466cj

Posts : 391
Join date : 2011-05-01
Location : San Antonio, TX.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 3:06 pm

466cj wrote:Think before tinkering with direct fuel injection need to come up with a 4V dual overhead cam head for the 460. Safe to say that would make a few more HP for the old 385 series. DI is a lot to do with emissions and as I understand it not easy to get right. Some designs have issues with carbon build up on the intake valves too.
That and I would think heat would be a problem, also.

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Direct Injection 385 Series Ford Empty Re: Direct Injection 385 Series Ford

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 3:20 pm

torino501 wrote:I think back in the late 90's Mercedes benz already had it in concept and a patent...and I think Navistar had a prototype medium duty truck with the solenoid actuated valve technology. at the time all they had was idle,mid throttle and wot...?I don't think we had the computer speed back them like we have today.i think the money involved to get it into production killed it... durability and longevity wise its wasn't feasible...
  You are correct, I think computer speed and durability of actuateor's where and aways have been the major issues. I was refering to a totally proportial, lineal, type setup, from idle to max programmed redline, lift and duration of any desired range of the ECM, and piston to valve clearance, with no valve float issues, that would also compensate for load. This is the final fronteer they say, of the internal comustion engine, maybe.

supervel45

Posts : 3085
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum