Dual Quads on a 460

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Dual Quads on a 460

Post  dragsterdick on January 16th 2014, 8:37 pm

I need any info on anyone that makes a single plane dual quad intake manifold for a 460 motor? I run Trick- Flow heads on my NSS car with a Blue Thunder dual plane and want the single plane. Pro Comp makes one, but they say it only works on Cobra Jet heads? Any info would be great! Thanks, Dick (dragsterdick@comcast.net)

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  c.evans on January 16th 2014, 9:12 pm

How are you getting by running a 429-460 engine in your NSS ?? I thought the cutoff year was 1967 and therefore all the Ford guys had to run the FE engines in NSS.

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NSS 460

Post  dragsterdick on January 16th 2014, 9:16 pm

I run the Midwest Victory Series and it is allowed. 422 and the west coast guys allow it also, just the Doug Duel group says no. It is a great car. Send me your e-mail and I will send a couple pics.

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Charlie

Post  dragsterdick on January 16th 2014, 9:29 pm

Heh Charlie, Do you have any experience with that intake?

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  c.evans on January 16th 2014, 11:02 pm

I do with the Blue Thunder dual plane you spoke of. Got one here now. We had the carbs for it done by Quick Fuel.

I have no experience with the Pro Comp stuff. Primarily just because I have a bad/negative attitude about all their junky products. I think the lack of runner length with the Pro Comp piece is going to really cripple one's low end torque.

I appreciate the explanation on the NSS thing. Of course Doug Duell is 30 miles way in Evansville, IN. My guy Jim Netherland runs the '67 Buick GS 400 in NMCA out of Columbia, TN. He's been the Champion twice.

Charlie

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Pro Comp Intake

Post  dragsterdick on January 16th 2014, 11:14 pm

Yeh Charlie, I think you are right. What kind of work are you doing on the BT intake? I run 2- 660's and want to do a little better flow on it since there is not a good single plane. I do run a C6 so I don't want to hurt the launch and a single plane on a heavy 64 Galaxie might not work out the best anyway? I also want to only spin it to approx. 6600 RPM? Ant thoughts?

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  bigblok2000ranger on January 17th 2014, 12:14 am

I talked to a guy at the track year before last who had a 63 Galaxie with 460 that had a Weind tunnel ram base with carb plates bolted directly to the runners. I am not sure if the runners were modified or not. He was experimenting with it at the time but I believe he said it had gained some MPH over the single four.
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  dfree383 on January 17th 2014, 12:27 am

bigblok2000ranger wrote:I talked to a guy at the track year before last who had a 63 Galaxie with 460 that had a Weind tunnel ram base with carb plates bolted directly to the runners. I am not sure if the runners were modified or not. He was experimenting with it at the time but I believe he said it had gained some MPH over the single four.

Dominator a will bolt directly to the tr manifold for an IR system only issue is getting big enough carbs to feed it. But it does work.
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  kim on January 17th 2014, 12:40 am

get some of them quick fuel 1600 cfm monsters on the thing. That's 400cfm per runner... should hold up to anything that did well with a dual plane intake on it.

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  LivermoreDave on January 17th 2014, 7:35 am

kim wrote:get some of them quick fuel 1600 cfm monsters on the thing.  That's 400cfm per runner...  should hold up to anything that did well with a dual plane intake on it.

....  cheers  ....

Dick, wish you had not explained to Charlie about another set of NSS rules! We'll be going out West to race now!

Dave.

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  dfree383 on January 17th 2014, 8:16 am

kim wrote:get some of them quick fuel 1600 cfm monsters on the thing.  That's 400cfm per runner...  should hold up to anything that did well with a dual plane intake on it.

Probably still on the small side.
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  Carl on January 17th 2014, 11:07 am

dragsterdick wrote:I need any info on anyone that makes a single plane dual quad intake manifold for a 460 motor?  I run Trick- Flow heads on my NSS car with a Blue Thunder dual plane and want the single plane. Pro Comp makes one, but they say it only works on Cobra Jet heads?  Any info would be great! Thanks, Dick   (dragsterdick@comcast.net)

The Procomp dual quad has no intake runners. Just a flange that bolts to the head and the entire interior of the intake is essentially the plenum. It'll bolt up just fine to any production style head, and the flange can easily be matched to the head if needed. Aside from being an appearance piece (and an ugly one at that), I don't think that intake would be a wise choice for anyone who wants their engine to perform well.

If you want a single plane dual quad, have some flanges cut on a water jet or plasma bench, get some sheet metal and tubing, and weld something up.

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  bigblok2000ranger on January 17th 2014, 9:18 pm

I think NSS rules require that it be a cast manifold or atleast start as a production piece, Carl.
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  Paul Kane on January 17th 2014, 11:25 pm

bigblok2000ranger wrote:I think NSS rules require that it be a cast manifold or at least start as a production piece, Carl.
If aftermarket cast aluminum intake manifolds are allowed (and they must be since the OP is asking about them), then both your point and Carl's begs the subsequent, following question:

Do the rules allow modifications to aftermarket cast intake manifolds?

Because if they allow modifications, then the gate is wide open.  If they allow only "repairs," then the gate is at least cracked open and the definition of "repair" may be very specific or perhaps subjective depending on who is viewing/evaluating the repair.

I'm converting a 2x4 T/R base to a single, open plenum (with runners) that will have a 2x4 carb plate affixed to its topside. It will be a low-rise 2x4 single plane when completed.
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 1:15 am

I did not see mentioned a dual plane with the divider milled down? Would this be a possiablty on a dual plane to increase top end perfomance, if the rules allow? Also Holley used to , or still might make 850cfm center squirter dual quad carb similar to the 660's. I saw a matched set on ebay not long ago. If you like I may be able to locate the list number, if you are interested? They where 1/1 full primary/secondary dump, like the 660's.

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  c.evans on January 18th 2014, 2:07 am

supervel45 wrote:I did not see mentioned a dual plane with the divider milled down? Would this be a possiablty on a dual plane to increase top end perfomance, if the rules allow? Also Holley used to , or still might make 850cfm center squirter dual quad carb similar to the 660's. I saw a matched set on ebay not long ago. If you like I may be able to locate the list number, if you are interested? They where 1/1 full primary/secondary dump, like the 660's.

You can't mill the divider down on the Blue Thunder dual plane, because of the shape of the carb pads, the upper plane and lower planes are diagonal, or X to each other. Like the old factory 427 2 X 4 manifolds.

With the Blue Thunder manifold we have spent the majority of our time porting and radiusing corners at the carb pads. You have to work way down in there. IMO it's not a bad manifold and I know the length of the runners will really help increase the low end torque. I would like to try a nice pair of those 850 cfm center squirters.

Charlie

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 2:39 am

Thanks Mr. Evan's. I was not sure. I am running a dual quad Edelbrock on my 351W and it was offered both ways. I was not sure on the Blue Thunder, and had forgotten exactly how the base was made. I will try and locate my old Holley book and see if the List number for the 850's or in it. I am pretty certain they are no longer made. The pair on Ebay caught my eye as I did not even know an 850 Center Squirt was ever produced. I cannot remember what the reserve was, but it seems they where pricey. I also seem to recall that the Linkage may have had something to do with Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins and early Pro Stock, but I am not certain. As to the Pro Comp I saw a thread, I believe here, On a gentleman that had some issue's with one of their Dual Quad Intakes. I also seem to remenber that it a Blue Thunder imitation dual pattern. As best as I can recall it had do with a casting flaw and internal vacuum leak. He did finnally get it sorted out.

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 3:26 am

If you would like the numbers I found them. The 850cfm Center squirter is no where in my old 1997 Holley master catolog including the spec section, ie; jets, powervalves, gaskets ect. which is pretty complete on all Holley's made back to the 70's. I did locate one for sale on Ebay. The list number is said to be #4223S. The ebay item # is 161200941317. It is for (1) carb., and the asking price is 195.95. The seller claims it is a late 60's vintage, to early 70's model. I did not go all through the listings, look under Holley 850 center squirter and you may find a pair. If you do pull it up please link it if you have time, if you like. Nevermind, need some linking practice anyway, got it to work.                                 VINTAGE HOLLEY 4223S 850 CFM CARB CARBURETOR CENTER SQUIRTER FORD CHEVY 427VINTAGE HOLLEY 4223S 850 CFM CARB CARBURETOR CENTER SQUIRTER FORD CHEVY 427VINTAGE HOLLEY 4223S 850 CFM CARB CARBURETOR CENTER SQUIRTER FORD CHEVY 427VINTAGE HOLLEY 4223S 850 CFM CARB CARBURETOR CENTER SQUIRTER FORD CHEVY 427  http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=Vintage+Holley+850+CFM+Center+Squirt+Carburetor+4223+NR


Last edited by supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 4:01 am

As you can see from the link, this 850 CS has center hung bowls and may not have room for inline mounting on the Blue Thunder intake. If you use side hung 660 CS bowls, with the 50cc accelrator pump, and maybe dual inlet fuel line conversion bowl off of a Holley list 6109 carb., or both bowls, from same carb., it should fit. The 6109 bowls are dual accelator pump, so the back bowl will have to be capped and the front converted to 50cc. The 850 CS does have dual metering blocks. The 660CS has a meter plate and a transfer tube. Holley used to list a longer transfer tube for dual metering blocks single inlet carbs.'s also. It can be made to work if you really want 850CS inline dual quads, bad enough. It would definitly be rare and unique.

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850 Center Squirters

Post  dragsterdick on January 18th 2014, 9:56 am

I thought about that center work also, maybe? The carb #'s would be great, thanks, Dick

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  bigblok2000ranger on January 18th 2014, 11:11 am

Paul Kane wrote:
bigblok2000ranger wrote:I think NSS rules require that it be a cast manifold or at least start as a production piece, Carl.
If aftermarket cast aluminum intake manifolds are allowed (and they must be since the OP is asking about them), then both your point and Carl's begs the subsequent, following question:

Do the rules allow modifications to aftermarket cast intake manifolds?

Because if they allow modifications, then the gate is wide open.  If they allow only "repairs," then the gate is at least cracked open and the definition of "repair" may be very specific or perhaps subjective depending on who is viewing/evaluating the repair.

I'm converting a 2x4 T/R base to a single, open plenum (with runners) that will have a 2x4 carb plate affixed to its topside. It will be a low-rise 2x4 single plane when completed.

If I recall the gentleman said that modifications were pretty open, but he had a hard time locating a Blue Thunder and cost was a factor. I think the biggest hurdle was that it had to fit under a factory style hood for the car it was used in.
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  Paul Kane on January 18th 2014, 12:02 pm

The Holley 850 Center Squirters were originally produced just a few years by Holley in the late 1960s/early 1970s. The 660 Center Squirter carb list is # 4224 and the 850 Center Squirter list is # 4223. I have a reconditioned pair of 850 Center Squirters that I've been sitting on for perhaps 10 years, just never had an application where I felt they were the best choice these days. Maybe a Nostalgia class of sorts might be where they belong...







Paul
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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 1:01 pm

bigblok2000ranger wrote:
Paul Kane wrote:
bigblok2000ranger wrote:I think NSS rules require that it be a cast manifold or at least start as a production piece, Carl.
If aftermarket cast aluminum intake manifolds are allowed (and they must be since the OP is asking about them), then both your point and Carl's begs the subsequent, following question:

Do the rules allow modifications to aftermarket cast intake manifolds?

Because if they allow modifications, then the gate is wide open.  If they allow only "repairs," then the gate is at least cracked open and the definition of "repair" may be very specific or perhaps subjective depending on who is viewing/evaluating the repair.

I'm converting a 2x4 T/R base to a single, open plenum (with runners) that will have a 2x4 carb plate affixed to its topside. It will be a low-rise 2x4 single plane when completed.

If I recall the gentleman said that modifications were pretty open, but he had a hard time locating a Blue Thunder and cost was a factor. I think the biggest hurdle was that it had to fit under a factory style hood for the car it was used in.
I saw both the Standard Port and the C/J Port Blue Thunder in stock in California, if I remember correctly, it was Cali., on a BT Vintage type website not two long ago. Both were listed on ebay, but never sold, also. They wanted around $600 for either. If you Google Blue Thunder Dual Quad 429/460, they should not be hard to find. Paul may know, since he is from that area?

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Re: Dual Quads on a 460

Post  supervel45 on January 18th 2014, 1:07 pm

Paul Kane wrote:The Holley 850 Center Squirters were originally produced just a few years by Holley in the late 1960s/early 1970s. The 660 Center Squirter carb list is # 4224 and the 850 Center Squirter list is # 4223. I have a reconditioned pair of 850 Center Squirters that I've been sitting on for perhaps 10 years, just never had an application where I felt they were the best choice these days. Maybe a Nostalgia class of sorts might be where they belong...







Paul
I would think on something like on top of a 8-71 in a T-Bucket with a Big Block would be cool.

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