My new build.

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My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 22nd 2014, 9:44 am

It's winter, there is a blizzard (-21C windchill with 12-14" of snow forecast) going on outside and I'm bored at work because there is hardly anyone here...LOL....Here is my build, does 600HP seem realistic? I was basically at 500HP with my old 468, D2PI head combo based off my weight and ET/MPH. I'll be running AV100 leaded fuel. The rotating assembly will be balanced.
 
Are stock head and main bolts sufficient for this or should I upgrade?
 
472", D1 block, decked, pistons should be .0035 down in the hole,
2YABC crank, PRW balancer and PRW SFI flexplate
"Cheapskate" A429 heads from the proven builds section, cut to 62cc
Carl's custom Probe dual relief forged pistons, 15cc dish, should be about 11.9:1
Eagle H-beam rods
PRW stainless 1.73 rr's and PRW girdles
Manley and Comp 5/16" .080" wall pushrods
Custom SFT cam to be ordered from Scott J, should be .650'ish lift, dual pattern in the .255-260 range at .050 (He's thinkin' on it Very Happy )
Howards EDM SFT lifters
New Motorsport 4150 victor intake, as cast
850DP, choke milled, 3.5PV in the front, blocked rear
4" x 14" K/N filter with xtreme top
MSD billet dizzy, 6AL, MSD coil and 9mm wires
Canton oil pan and windage tray
Cloyes double roller timing chain
Melling HV oil pump with ARP shaft
PRW electric water pump
Hooker super comp headers, 2" prim, 3.5" collectors
 
On a side note I will have a fresh rollerized C6 with a Merkl VB/t-brake and a delay box in the car, I was a footbraker last year. This should be interesting. Very Happy
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Re: My new build.

Post  jbozzelle on January 22nd 2014, 10:02 am

I think you'll make it. Those stock main and head bolts should suffice too.

One thing I'd pay attention to with the Melling pump is to make sure the pickup doesn't pull it around when the pickup is mounted to the main cap. A friend's was like that and the pump snapped right near the base after some time. Apparently it was cracked for some time though. I actually snapped it moving the pickup tube around for a new pan combo.

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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 22nd 2014, 10:24 am

I'll have to watch for that. The used canton pan I bought in NY has a brand new HV pump included in the deal for $20 extra so I'll have a spare here. I had the FRPP fox body swap pan on it last summer, at the stripe I would see 50psi and as soon as I piled on the brakes it would shoot to 75-80psi. I suspect the pickup might have been too close to the pan. I haven't taken it off the engine yet to measure it but I remember checking it when I built the engine and at the time I think it was 3/8" away.
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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 25th 2014, 11:37 am

I have another question:

Right now I'm running a Holley blue pump and Holley regulator. 8AN line from the cell to an old school FRAM bowl type filter (same as Pro Products sells now), 8AN to the pump and then to the regulator. Last year I ran this at the carb, I need to add a fuel pressure gauge that I can see in the car this winter. Will a Holley Blue pump feed 600HP? It's given me ZERO trouble so far and I have a spare blue pump with me at the track. Do I need to run to separate lines from the regulator to the carb?

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Re: My new build.

Post  bosshoss on January 25th 2014, 12:55 pm

Personally I believe you are right at the limit with the blue pump running 600hp in a drag application.

Others may disagree.

dkp
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Re: My new build.

Post  Dave C. on January 25th 2014, 1:13 pm

Disconnect fuel lines from the carb , mark a "one gallon" line on a bucket , put the lines into the bucket , turn on the pump, and see how long it takes to fill the bucket to the line...

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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 25th 2014, 2:52 pm

I'll try the bucket trick next week. I will say that to date my car has given me ZERO performance issues at the track knock on wood. No big end miss's or breaking down, no stumbles off the line. I've had a couple little things break on me (dizzy and a brake issue found in the pits) but performance wise everything has been A1. Wink 
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Re: My new build.

Post  Bill Heard on January 26th 2014, 3:07 am

I liked your video and noticed S/Pro on the window, now I see your going to brake and delay box...good idea.
Are you dead set on a C6??? Power glide may be better way to go. I'm sure a C6 will work also.
Make sure to get a cross over box too. I like the K&R myself.
I think the blue pump will work but be ready to up grade, maybe a Black Holly?
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Re: My new build.

Post  dfree383 on January 26th 2014, 8:18 am

Get flat top pistons

And get it a close to zero deck as possible.
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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 26th 2014, 9:04 am

I ordered a set of the .060" over dual fly-cut SCJ/P51 Probe's that Carl is selling on the other forum. It should put me about 11.9:1 which is good for the AV100 leaded fuel I'll be running. Race fuel is expensive and hard to get here. The have a 15cc dish, a flat top was going to put me around 13.5:1 which I was told by a couple local builders is pushing the limit of AV100. The same Probe with a single fly cut would only offer .1 more in compression but they would cost a bunch more than the deal Carl is offering and having our Canadian dollar at $.90 US things are starting to get expensive again. Buying in the US is not as attractive as it was. You guys are lucky with the Free shipping deals Summit offer's. I have to pay for shipping and then get wacked with brokerage fee's and 15% tax at the border. That 15% add's up fast. I paid $287 in taxes on the head's I bought from Dave. That sucked. Rolling Eyes 

The block has been decked some already, if memory serves me the KB137's in my engine are .002 down in the hole.
I'm running a C6 in my car, no PG for this cat. I'm a diehard Ford guy and I can get the job done with the C6. I know it's heavy and it robs some power but it's got Henry's stamp on it. Very Happy I'm building a rollerized C6 this winter using Frank Merkl's instructions and my VB is one of his builds too. I got a Deadenbear RTD-6 box used on trade for some truck parts to a buddy who races. Cross talk is not used or allowed at my track. The S/Pro break here is 10.99 and under. I ran there all last summer footbraking with no box, needless to say I didn't have a lot of round wins but I put a few on the trailer....LOL....I usually force them to break out trying to run me down. I'll do the bucket trick and see how much fuel I'm moving before I condemn the blue pump. Aren't all the holley pump's the same? I thought I read you just need to change the spring inside?
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fuel pump

Post  austin460 on January 26th 2014, 10:20 am

Holley quotes their blue pump at 110gph and their black at 140gph if you upgrade to the black, Holley recommends a different regulator to. I believe the change in regulators is because the blue pump has a built in bypass but the black hasn't. This is only what I can vaguely remember so you need to double check this, but it is something you need to look into before you just swap pumps.
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Re: My new build.

Post  Dave C. on January 26th 2014, 10:25 am

You can buy a spring for the blue to raise the pressure. Jegs sells it for 9.99

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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 26th 2014, 11:03 am

That's what I thought I read. It's cheaper than buying two new pumps if it will do the trick.
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Re: My new build.

Post  Dave C. on January 26th 2014, 11:06 am

I'd buy a rebuild kit for it too... the spring is a little hard on things..

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Re: My new build.

Post  dirt_worker on January 26th 2014, 11:16 am

I'm not a fan of the holley pumps (every single one I've ever been around has failed) id run a HV mech pump before id run a blue holley again.
You might rethink your cam and go w somebody closer like Randy Malick, Lem or my personal preference would be Blake Cartwright.
I've had cams from both Scotty j and Blake. Performance wise... Blakes cam definitely made me a fan of his. (Super GREAT guy to boot)
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Re: My new build.

Post  austin460 on January 26th 2014, 12:16 pm

If you upgrade the spring in the Holley it will only increase the pressure it is able to run at, not the amount of flow. Surely it is flow not pressure you are looking for.
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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 26th 2014, 12:30 pm

Flow - yes. I'll try the bucket truck before I make any changes.
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Re: My new build.

Post  J.Toney on January 26th 2014, 2:01 pm

From what I understand, they old school Holley vane-type pump have gone WAY down in quality in recent years. With bring built offshore with substandard parts, our local speed shop doesn't want to sell them lately for fear of warranties. 
I needed a economical pump recently and went with a Carter deal.  Not saying that'll suit your needs, but I'd look right past the vane style Holley stuff.
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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 26th 2014, 2:31 pm

I've used the Holley pumps for years, never had an issue but Ive changed a crap load of vane style carter pumps on 5.9 cummins engines with the VP44 fuel system. The motors would run but they wouldn't pump. These are 7-14psi systems too.
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Re: My new build.

Post  LivermoreDave on January 26th 2014, 2:59 pm

[quote="BigRigTech"]I'm running a C6 in my car, no PG for this cat. I'm a diehard Ford guy and I can get the job done with the C6. I know it's heavy and it robs some power but it's got Henry's stamp on it.[quote="BigRedTech"]

If you are planning to prepare or update a transmission, could a C4 be of value in your application?

Dave.

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Re: My new build.

Post  austin460 on January 26th 2014, 3:16 pm

Don't know if it helps but I've never had a problem with a Holley blue with the exception of having some dirty fuel block one up. I also found this on the Aeromotive website, http://aeromotiveinc.com/2010/01/fuel-pumps-and-horsepower/   it might help you with your choice but from what I can decipher your Holley blue will be fine.

Before this turns into a fuel pump thread, do you think your 850dp will be up to task In my experience and from what I have read these Fords love to eat you may be better off with a 1050 dommi, Also it may be worth doing a little blending on your manifold in the area under your carb. I don't doubt you will achieve your goals without but whilst your building you may as well try and optimise what you have.
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Re: My new build.

Post  supervel45 on January 26th 2014, 3:16 pm

bosshoss wrote:Personally I believe you are right at the limit with the blue pump running 600hp in a drag application.

Others may disagree.

dkp
I agree. Put a fuel guage on the cowl, and check pressure on a pass.

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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 26th 2014, 3:57 pm

LivermoreDave wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:I'm running a C6 in my car, no PG for this cat. I'm a diehard Ford guy and I can get the job done with the C6. I know it's heavy and it robs some power but it's got Henry's stamp on it.
BigRedTech wrote:

If you are planning to prepare or update a transmission, could a C4 be of value in your application?

Dave.

If I went C4 I'd have to find one to build or look for a built one (not much around here for C4 stuff) and then I need the BH for it to fit the BBF. I'd have to get my converter modified and a new shield too....All that will cost me a lot more than building a rollerized C6 myself. If the C6 is built right it will last for years. The one I have now has 15yrs worth of racing on it since it was done, still works great too. I can only imagine how many passes are on it. I have no set goal for HP or ET, what ever it runs - it runs - as long as I can make it consistent so I can go rounds. A 1050 would pick up for sure over the 850 but there's no $$$ for one right now. I need to spend that $$$ on machine work, balancing, gaskets and etc so I'll be ready for spring. I can go to a Domi later as an upgrade if the dollars are there. I'm also trying to get my car painted this winter which will cost me some, I'm going to do the body work myself to save some dough. I already spent a bunch this winter, Dave cleaned me out. Very Happy Rolling Eyes  I get to race 5 times a summer right now because I can't afford to travel to the other tracks in the Maritimes (3 kids and a big mortgage payment ties my hands). A running 472/C6 10.20's or what ever car is more fun then a 1/2 done 3000lb wheel chock in my shop. You wouldn't believe the Power-glide pressure I get here from all my racing buddy's, mostly because they want to see me put a Chevy tranny under my car so they can say "I told you so" when it pick's up some. Wink 
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Re: My new build.

Post  nitrous.f on January 26th 2014, 4:50 pm

there not telling this just to jump your bone! there telling you this because its the truth, the trans is the way to go! Shocked 
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Re: My new build.

Post  BigRigTech on January 26th 2014, 5:08 pm

nitrous.f wrote:there not telling this just to jump your bone! there telling you this because its the truth, the trans is the way to go! Shocked 

I'm not disagreeing that it would pick up over my C6 - that's a no brainer - but I'm one of the few Ford guy's left who won't make the change. Evil or Very Mad 
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