Soldering .

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Re: Soldering .

Post  Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 9:52 am

LivermoreDave wrote:Another two opinions if I may. I've been using the crimp type battery cable ends for years although instead of crimping them I place the end in a vise, heat and fill to about 75% with solder then slightly heat the stripped cable and push the cable into the cable end. Works great and makes a nice looking and serviceable connection. It would seem to me if a cable (regardless of size) is overheating to the point of effecting solder's value, or heating the cable itself, the cable size and/or the cable's connections may not be applied correctly.

Dave.

Depending on the solder the melting point starts in the 300 deg range or so. Without a fuse in the system those temps are easily attainable.

Use a temp gun on your connection while the engine is being cranked. Without an actual physical connection between the wire and the lug any heat is going to the solder.

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Re: Soldering .

Post  Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 9:54 am

richter69 wrote:^^^^ this is how I have done all my battery terminal ends for a long time now, never a provlem in all the years i been doing it..

Smoking hasn't killed us yet either. Must be healthy  Razz 
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Re: Soldering .

Post  Dave C. on January 29th 2014, 10:03 am

So you like the crimped style battery cable ends? Makes sense.

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Re: Soldering .

Post  Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 10:14 am

Dave C. wrote:So you like the crimped style battery cable ends? Makes sense.

Yes if they are quality pieces that can be, and are crimped properly.  

If they are not crimped properly, it's worse than soldered correctly.    If that makes sense
With a fuse in the circuit there's no reason soldered should get that hot, without one they can.


Last edited by Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Soldering .

Post  LivermoreDave on January 29th 2014, 10:16 am

Diggindeeper wrote:
LivermoreDave wrote:Another two opinions if I may. I've been using the crimp type battery cable ends for years although instead of crimping them I place the end in a vise, heat and fill to about 75% with solder then slightly heat the stripped cable and push the cable into the cable end. Works great and makes a nice looking and serviceable connection. It would seem to me if a cable (regardless of size) is overheating to the point of effecting solder's value, or heating the cable itself, the cable size and/or the cable's connections may not be applied correctly.

Dave.

Depending on the solder the melting point starts in the 300 deg range or so.   Without a fuse in the system those temps are easily attainable.

Use a temp gun on your connection while the engine is being cranked.  Without an actual physical connection between the wire and the lug any heat is going to the solder.


You bring an interesting point (temperatures) to the topic although as I wrote prior to this reply, application is premier. The value of the solder in each application will dictate the resistance to heat as well the cable/wire gauge and type. The cable should not be installed in the connector to allow a "floating" of the cable it should make direct contact with the connector. You may offer a lesson in cable/wire temperatures that I need, although without the use of a temperature detecting device I don't believe the battery cables (large amperage requirement) incorporated within my vehicles reach 300*! Or at least the protective heat shrink, cable jacket or solder has ran down the fender well .... yet!

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Re: Soldering .

Post  Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 10:28 am

They may or may not reach those temps. Every application is unique. I have seen those temps in my field, more than enough however someone who knows enough to stop cranking after a couple seconds will likely never see those high temps. Not everyone knows enough to do that.
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Re: Soldering .

Post  LivermoreDave on January 29th 2014, 10:39 am

Diggindeeper wrote:They may or may not reach those temps.  Every application is unique. I have seen those temps in my field, more than enough however someone who knows enough to stop cranking after a couple seconds will likely never see those high temps. Not everyone knows enough to do that.

Can I assume your writings are of "generally speaking" terms/conditions ?

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Re: Soldering .

Post  Dave C. on January 29th 2014, 12:08 pm

It would be interesting to take a temp. reading of a battery cable end as the starter is being activated on a hot , high comp. , engine...

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Re: Soldering .

Post  richter69 on January 29th 2014, 1:52 pm

Diggindeeper wrote:
richter69 wrote:^^^^ this is how I have done all my battery terminal ends for a long time now, never a provlem in all the years i been doing it..

Smoking hasn't killed us yet either. Must be healthy  Razz 


its killed lots......
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Re: Soldering .

Post  supervel45 on January 29th 2014, 4:09 pm

On a V8 if I remember correctly, it is 3-400 amps durning cranking of a stock type engine. It will be more on a hot high compression one. The bad connections get the hottest, and burn and melt first. Think of it like an Arc Welding Rod at the tip, which would be like a weak connection, or high resistance point.

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Re: Soldering .

Post  DFI429 on January 29th 2014, 9:02 pm

The physical "weakness" of a soldered connection, and the connection's lack of ampacity can be attributed to the types of connections referenced thus far - soldered but not physically bonded connections.  A soldered wire connection should NEVER be just two wires held side by side with an alligator clip.. the wires should be twisted together then soldered, yielding strength and conductivity.  Like this:



I like wrapping mine even tighter than the picture (not my pic).

Of all the large gauge battery, solenoid, and starter connections I've ever made, all were crimped and soldered with not one problem to report.  Only the sweet bliss of a spinning engine every time  Wink
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Re: Soldering .

Post  Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 11:34 pm

LivermoreDave wrote:
Diggindeeper wrote:They may or may not reach those temps.  Every application is unique. I have seen those temps in my field, more than enough however someone who knows enough to stop cranking after a couple seconds will likely never see those high temps. Not everyone knows enough to do that.

Can I assume your writings are of "generally speaking" terms/conditions ?

Dave.

Just like to add an alternate thought on subjects.
In my field soldered joints caused house fires. That's why we don't do that anymore, even though there was much more to it than the soldered joint itself.
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Re: Soldering .

Post  Diggindeeper on January 29th 2014, 11:47 pm

supervel45 wrote:On a V8 if I remember correctly, it is 3-400 amps durning cranking of a stock type engine. It will be more on a hot high compression one. The bad connections get the hottest, and burn and melt first. Think of it like an Arc Welding Rod at the tip, which would be like a weak connection, or high resistance point.

Doesn't have to be a bad connection.  Undersized wire for the current will heat just the same as a bad connection, except it will heat throughout the wire.  
At 400 amps 4/0 cable is hot to the touch with any prolonged draw
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Re: Soldering .

Post  Curt on January 30th 2014, 1:35 pm

richter69 wrote:^^^^ this is how I have done all my battery terminal ends for a long time now, never a provlem in all the years i been doing it..

I'm guessing that the soldered portion of the cable is supported pretty good,,,,,,,,, no?

How many factory (wire) connections are soldered? I'm guessing you've seen a few in your time.
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