Water pump question

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Water pump question

Post  85lebaront2 on February 9th 2014, 11:46 pm

I was just checking PNs (Ford and aftermarket) on 460 water pumps. I have a 1986 engine converted to EFI using an EFI timing cover on the front and reinstalling the fairly new at the time water pump from the carbureted setup. I found a number of variations, Ford has three different numbers E5TZ-C, 1986 -12/2/90, F1TZ-A, 12/3/90 - 1993, F4TZ-B - 1994-97. AutoZone lists DWP-459, 1986 - 87 and 1990 - 92, DWP-842, 1988 - 89, DWP-839, 1992 - 94, DWP-9125, 1995-97. Rock Auto lists WP459, 1986 - 92, WP839, 1992 - 94, WP9125, 1995 - 97.

Does anyone know what the differences are, impeller size, number of blades ?? Mine just ate the current pump, which is an AutoZone DWP-859 under lifetime warranty. and I want to see if I need a different one while I am changing it.
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Re: Water pump question

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on February 10th 2014, 12:32 am

This might help.
http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/store/Water-Pumps-Ford-CID:-460/7.5L/c21_30_136/index.html

Most of it is mounting hole size and hub diameter going from V Belt to serpentine belts. I did hear a rumor of bolt pattern being different but I have not verified that yet.




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Re: Water pump question

Post  supervel45 on February 10th 2014, 1:03 am

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:This might help.
http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/store/Water-Pumps-Ford-CID:-460/7.5L/c21_30_136/index.html

Most of it is mounting hole size and hub diameter going from V Belt to serpentine belts. I did hear a rumor of bolt pattern being different but I have not verified that yet.




I mentioned the water pump snout was different, and it came from an old SVO catalog about replacing Ford crate engine water pump to convert to V-Belt from serpentine. I would take this with a grain of salt as it was not listed exactly what the difference was in the SVO catalog between the two, and someone else mentioned the snout holes did not match V pulleys and fans. The only reverse flow water pump I could locate was an aftermarket for a single belt setup, so at least you don't have to worry about that.

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Re: Water pump question

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on February 10th 2014, 1:26 am

70-92 Hub Height is 5- 5/8" 1-3/4" Inlet hose
92-95 Hub Height is 5-9/16" 2" Inlet Hose
95-97 Hub Height is 5-9/16" 1-3/4" Inlet hose

Also heater and bypass connections are different sizes.

Compare the ones I linked to what you have.
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RE: Water pump question

Post  85lebaront2 on February 10th 2014, 10:18 am

Ok, thanks. I know that the timing cover didn't change except for the 1996-1997 CA spec engines, those have a misfire sensor mounting pad. The other mostly looks like, a thinner water pump/fan pulley starting in 1992 (1988 up are polygroove belts), a smaller bypass hose nipple starting the same year and a smaller inlet hose OD as you progress newer. It's hard to do a direct comparison of the lower radiator hoses as Ford went from an optional front of the radiator oil cooler through 1987 to that being standard 1988-early 1990 then to an in the lower hose oil cooler (that fails a lot) in late 1990 through end of production. The heater return spec is strange, they give the ID of the hole and say threaded rather than giving say 1/2 NPT or 3/4 NPT. 9/16" threaded is just strange unless Ford went metric for the return fitting.

All of their pumps have the 16 blade impeller which I'm sure moves a ton of water. I have never had any real overheating problems except in a middle of last summer traffic jam where I was creeping 2 or 3 cars at a time for 45 min in 95° degree heat. The EFI system raised the idle and killed the AC compressor, so I just put it in neutral every time I stopped. Gauge went halfway up, once I was through and started moving, it came right back down.
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Re: Water pump question

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on February 19th 2014, 9:10 pm

Ok I have some answers and some pics.

There is 2 different serp water pump pulleys. Different only in the bolt pattern. There was a substantial change in the water pump design.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2884319&postcount=34

Early serp pulley re-drilled to to fit later pump. So now it has both bolt patterns. Notice the part number.


Late serp pulley
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Water pump question

Post  85lebaront2 on February 19th 2014, 9:56 pm

Ok, thanks. Now that I know, when I build my new engine I will use one of the later pumps. The failure I had was the bearing, so maybe that is the reason for the changes.
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Re: Water pump question

Post  supervel45 on February 20th 2014, 1:09 am

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Ok I have some answers and some pics.

There is 2 different serp water pump pulleys. Different only in the bolt pattern. There was a substantial change in the water pump design.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2884319&postcount=34

Early serp pulley re-drilled to to fit later pump. So now it has both bolt patterns. Notice the part number.


Late serp pulley
Thanks. That info is liking pulling teeth to comeby. Someone ought to get all the info on a stickey somehow.

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Re: Water pump question

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on February 20th 2014, 1:24 am

Pulling teeth LOL It has made me a gray headed young man LOL

I have been trying to find the left hand side power steering and AC bracket from a van. That is a nightmare. I need it because it uses a Saginaw power steering pump. The truck bracket will not accept a sag pump. Almost to the point of designing an adapter plate to mate a sag pump to the truck bracket.
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Re: Water pump question

Post  supervel45 on February 20th 2014, 4:08 am

When I did my 351m to 429 swap I had a complete engine, and adaptamounts with instructions, it went smoothly, but I was sweating it. That was around 1994, and my first conversion swap. Ford had alot of variations in 28 or so years of production of the 385 Series, plus the Medium truck series 370/4294V. Pickup new stuff quite a bit, to this day. The two tight fan belt, number one main bearing upper half was just last week. Never run across the problem, but good to know if you do. This sight is the best 385 sight I have seen, Network 54 has alot of good stuff, but seems harder to navigate, to me. Brackets are getting to be a problem, because they are going in the smeltors, and or not in recking yards anymore in all varieties, like in the 70-80s. Aftermarket support is the best ever now, since strokers came into vogue. Kasse also played a major role, too. Long live 73-79 P/U's and Bronic's and the BBF, they will never Die.

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Water pump question

Post  85lebaront2 on February 20th 2014, 8:44 am

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Pulling teeth LOL It has made me a gray headed young man LOL

I have been trying to find the left hand side power steering and AC bracket from a van. That is a nightmare. I need it because it uses a Saginaw power steering pump. The truck bracket will not accept a sag pump. Almost to the point of designing an adapter plate to mate a sag pump to the truck bracket.

Are you using the serpentine belt setup? I can look next time I am at my favorite junkyard in Newport News. I found a vee belt setup there for a friend on FTE, he has an 87 F-250 4wd and got tired of the Ford pump whine. I found it on an old box van rental truck, just sitting there in all it's glory, pump included. Cost him $100 shipped to Greenwich CN. I have thought about maybe doing that on mine.
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Re: Water pump question

Post  aquartlow on February 20th 2014, 10:37 am

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Pulling teeth LOL It has made me a gray headed young man LOL

I have been trying to find the left hand side power steering and AC bracket from a van. That is a nightmare. I need it because it uses a Saginaw power steering pump. The truck bracket will not accept a sag pump. Almost to the point of designing an adapter plate to mate a sag pump to the truck bracket.

Would this bracketry work, utilizes Saginaw PS and A6 A/C compressor, but you could cut the A/C compressor section off the front plate if not needed. Originally removed from a '76 Mercury Grand Marquis w/ 460. Includes front plate, Saginaw pump mount, and heavy mount that attaches to drivers side cylinder head/block area(I might even be able to find the original bolts).



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Re: Water pump question

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on February 20th 2014, 11:52 am

I don't know what happen to the editor but I can't post pictures or links the correct way. Please bare with me while I post pics and links.
What I need is for a serp belt setup. It will be the large cast aluminum piece. Usually found on Box vans, stripped chassis, E350 vans, motorhomes.

If I don't find them I have an idea for adapter something similar to these.

5.0 Adapter
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/vehicle-specific-products/ford-truck-70-12/steering-pumps/ford-5-0-saginaw-pump-adapter-bracket.html

351W Adapter
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/vehicle-specific-products/ford-truck-70-12/steering-pumps/ford-351-saginaw-pump-adapter-bracket.html

Both of those say you must modify the Ford pulley but don't say how. They do offer a pulley that will work.


Last edited by SandHillsHillbilly on February 20th 2014, 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Water pump question

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on February 20th 2014, 11:59 am

Ignore


Last edited by SandHillsHillbilly on February 20th 2014, 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : trying to post pics)
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Re: Water pump question

Post  460bronco on February 21st 2014, 10:46 am

Would this bracketry work, utilizes Saginaw PS and A6 A/C compressor, but you could cut the A/C compressor section off the front plate if not needed. Originally removed from a '76 Mercury Grand Marquis w/ 460. Includes front plate, Saginaw pump mount, and heavy mount that attaches to drivers side cylinder head/block area(I might even be able to find the original bolts).



[/quote]


I have this set of brackets on my bronco and love it.  It makes adjusting the power steering belt extremely easy.  It's a very sturdy mount.  I lightened mine up as you suggested by cutting off all of the AC stuff.  Bottom line this is an awesome bracket!  May not be the best looking thing, but it is strong and sturdy!

Jon
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