Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  maverick on March 11th 2014, 7:46 pm

Good luck.

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  69F100 on March 11th 2014, 7:55 pm

[quote="MiamiSC"]
maverick wrote:Yes, you can spin the pump without starting the engine...Make that a HABIT anytime you fire one up for the first time.

If it was mine, the pan would come off.  You've surely hurt some parts in there.

Ok noted, thanks for the information.

Can I replace bearings with the pan off? Without removing the engine??.. I ask because maybe I could drop the subframe.[/quote

Yes the bearing can be changed in the car the rod bearing not hard at all the main bearings is a different story the main caps easy but thr upper half is an bit more harder you have make sure you do not hit the crank it will scar and then it will eat the new one also make what you use does not hit in the main saddle
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  the Coug on March 11th 2014, 7:57 pm

and they walk among us
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  maverick on March 11th 2014, 8:03 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:This would all depend upon whether or not the engine saw some real heat and how good of an assembly lube was used.
Take it out and disassemble the whole thing and inspect it right, then start over.
If a piston with recommended tight clearances was used, my concern would be cylinder walls and pistons skirt scuffing.

EDIT:  You will know EXACTLY what got hurt and what didn't and replace what is needed ... you'll sleep better afterward.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Words to live by^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  CDMBill on March 11th 2014, 8:09 pm

I think everyone has made mistakes assembling engines, especially early in the learning curve, I know I did. The worst ones for me are of the 'oh it'll be ok, the miss isn't that bad, that tick is probably an exhaust leak, that tranny fluid isn't really burnt, much, its not that lean.

While it's always a pain to think about redoing something you just did, I always seem get bit when I fail to bite the bullet, pull it out, and make sure it's right. Good luck.

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  cool40 on March 11th 2014, 8:24 pm

Its ruined pull it now or pump the oil through it with your new shaft and check the filter.then pull it out and fix it.
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  dfree383 on March 11th 2014, 8:56 pm

My 2 cents...... Pull the motor and make life easy on yourself. Trying to do it in the car is really stupid and 3 times the work and if you ran it that long your going to need to clean everything anyway.
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  GTmustang on March 12th 2014, 7:06 am

CDMBill wrote:I think everyone has made mistakes assembling engines, especially early in the learning curve, I know I did. The worst ones for me are of the 'oh it'll be ok, the miss isn't that bad, that tick is probably an exhaust leak, that tranny fluid isn't really burnt, much, its not that lean.

While it's always a pain to think about redoing something you just did, I always seem get bit when I fail to bite the bullet, pull it out, and make sure it's right. Good luck.
X2- Words of wisdom to live by! We all make mistakes, and after awhile you realize that there is no easy way out and sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pull it out to ensure that no further avoidable damage is done! I've never had any luck trying to do anything the "cheap and easy" way, do it the "safe and right" way.
Gary

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  bbf-falcon on March 13th 2014, 4:03 am

dfree383 wrote:My 2 cents...... Pull the motor and make life easy on yourself. Trying to do it in the car is really stupid and 3 times the work and if you ran it that long your going to need to clean everything anyway.

XXXXX222222. Pulling the engine will be the hard part. After you get it out and on a engine stand we can help you from there. Pull the pan and find the shaft first.Good luck brother. Don't be too hard on yourself if you are a novice,the mistakes will make you learn fast. We have all made big mistakes (except the Coug) Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  the Coug on March 13th 2014, 7:58 am

bbf-falcon wrote:
dfree383 wrote:My 2 cents...... Pull the motor and make life easy on yourself. Trying to do it in the car is really stupid and 3 times the work and if you ran it that long your going to need to clean everything anyway.

XXXXX222222. Pulling the engine will be the hard part. After you get it out and on a engine stand we can help you from there. Pull the pan and find the shaft first.Good luck brother. Don't be too hard on yourself if you are a novice,the mistakes will make you learn fast. We have all made big mistakes (except the Coug) Rolling Eyes 
 
 
Rick I also agree with pulling the Engine, but most people with any common sense at all would not start an engine 8 or 9 times with no oil PSI.........  after the first few seconds without you would go looking for it, not keep starting it hoping the magic oil ferry would fix it for you.....
 
here about 10 years ago I rebuilt a 88 tbird turbo coupe some guy from over by OKC wanted it so I sold it to him. a few weeks later he called  it is leaking oil at the oil filter, I told him to change it and make sure it didn't have a defective filter. He didn't want to mess with it so he took it to his buddy this self proclaimed mechanical guru.... he pulled the oil filter and replaced it, well it leaked again... Question  so he got this bright Idea and drained the oil and took the filter off and started it and let it run for a few minutes. Then he called and said it doesn't leak when you drain the oil and take the filter off...... Idea  and ask me what I thought was wrong Question  I said what? he told me again they drained the oil and took the filter off and ran it for a few minutes, so I told him to call the scrap dealer and have it hauled off...and him and his buddy need to quit working on cars....
 
I have not much patients for these guys  I also can't understand why people put engine together with out checking the clearances


I was at the track here a couple years ago and this guy was having troubles with his car, I decided to go see if I could help, so I went over and ask what was the matter? He said it's not running right. I ask where is your timing and how about your fuel PSI? so he pointed to his distributor and said timing is right there and fuel PSI is right there pointing at his carb..... I said I think you got things under control and walked away...


Last edited by the Coug on March 13th 2014, 11:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  4thHorseman on March 13th 2014, 9:34 am

MiamiSC wrote:Ok thanks.. Ill look at the bearings and take some pictures for you guys.

I know the right thing to do it so pull the motor, I just really would hate to do that, it was such a pain to put the damn thing with that huge c6 in it by myself. I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for not being so rough on me  Cool 

We were all there once. Heck the first time I did a "whores' bath" style rebuild on a sbc in high school it lasted 3 miles.  Shocked 

Look, you may think it's such a bitch to pull it and you're saving yourself pain by trying to skimp by, but you're setting yourself up for the likelihood of disaster in the near future. You will sleep better knowing that it is 100%. So just crack open a beer and yank that mother. Hopefully you can just polish up your crank with a little emery cloth, replace crank and rod bearings and be good to go. I always put a whole lot of engine lube on the cam & lifters when it's new. Hope you did so they're still ducky. If that's all questionable in your head after yanking it, I'd have a shop do a quick once-over on it to be sure it's healthy.
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  bbf-falcon on March 13th 2014, 5:33 pm


 
 
Rick I also agree with pulling the Engine, but most people with any common sense at all would not start an engine 8 or 9 times with no oil PSI.........  after the first few seconds without you would go looking for it, not keep starting it hoping the magic oil ferry would fix it for you.....
 
here about 10 years ago I rebuilt a 88 tbird turbo coupe some guy from over by OKC wanted it so I sold it to him. a few weeks later he called  it is leaking oil at the oil filter, I told him to change it and make sure it didn't have a defective filter. He didn't want to mess with it so he took it to his buddy this self proclaimed mechanical guru.... he pulled the oil filter and replaced it, well it leaked again... Question  so he got this bright Idea and drained the oil and took the filter off and started it and let it run for a few minutes. Then he called and said it doesn't leak when you drain the oil and take the filter off...... Idea  and ask me what I thought was wrong Question  I said what? he told me again they drained the oil and took the filter off and ran it for a few minutes, so I told him to call the scrap dealer and have it hauled off...and him and his buddy need to quit working on cars....
 
I have not much patients for these guys  I also can't understand why people put engine together with out checking the clearances


I was at the track here a couple years ago and this guy was having troubles with his car, I decided to go see if I could help, so I went over and ask what was the matter? He said it's not running right. I ask where is your  timing and how about your fuel PSI? so he pointed to his distributor and said timing is right there and fuel PSI is right there pointing at his carb..... I said I think you got things under control and walked away...[/quote]

Randy,I understand what you are saying,BUT,I know he did a bad mistake,and we all have. IF he is a Moron (which he's probably NOT) he will be back on here w/more bonehead mistakes. Then we should come down on him. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt this time and just give him some helpful advise. Smile 

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  rmcomprandy on March 13th 2014, 7:48 pm

4thHorseman wrote:

Look, you may think it's such a bitch to pull it and you're saving yourself pain by trying to skimp by, but you're setting yourself up for the likelihood of disaster in the near future.  You will sleep better knowing that it is 100%.  So just crack open a beer and yank that mother.  Hopefully you can just polish up your crank with a little emery cloth, replace crank and rod bearings and be good to go.  I always put a whole lot of engine lube on the cam & lifters when it's new.  Hope you did so they're still ducky.  If that's all questionable in your head after yanking it, I'd have a shop do a quick once-over on it to be sure it's healthy.

People ... it is HIS problem and it appears that he only asked hoping that he would get the answer he wanted to hear.
If he places such little credence on other opinions ... so be it.  It is HIS engine and VEHICLE so he can do with it as he pleases.
As is said; "you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink it".

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  7DMACH1 on March 14th 2014, 12:42 pm

How about the rings, with no oil on the cylinder walls???
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  the Coug on March 16th 2014, 6:41 am

rmcomprandy wrote:

People ... it is HIS problem and it appears that he only asked hoping that he would get the answer he wanted to hear.
If he places such little credence on other opinions ... so be it.  It is HIS engine and VEHICLE so he can do with it as he pleases.
As is said; "you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink it".



I agree Randy so I say go ahead and do what you want it will be just great. running an engine with no oil is the best way to break then in you did good.. I hope that's what you wanted to hear....

Have a nice life
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  Super Snake Steve on March 16th 2014, 9:01 am

You guys just don't get it, Its a race engine and that's how you get the proper clearance on the bearings for high RPM APPLICATION

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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  Foxfire85 on March 18th 2014, 12:51 am

C'mon guys. You all know the parasitic draw the oil pump has on the motor. You just take the shaft out and boom! Added horsepower! Kinda like under drive pulleys, except........not.
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Re: Did not notice there was no oil pump drive shaft.

Post  supervel45 on March 18th 2014, 1:41 am

I am a very practical man Gentleman, and a Realalist, and not much of an Optimist, I am told sometimes. We can put this incident to good use I think? If he does follow everyones, good advice, and pulls the engine for inspection and replacement of needed parts. He can take pictures of the damage, for us to see if any, and we all can see how bad it was. On a lighter note, I hope he used Mobil 1 and alot of cam lube, ring seating be damned. Suspect

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