New c6 doesn't do anything in any gear????

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New c6 doesn't do anything in any gear???? Empty New c6 doesn't do anything in any gear????

Post  460bronco on March 16th 2014, 10:01 pm

Ok... I'm really scratching my head here...

Broader full manual reverse valve body w/ engine braking, r-code servo, new pump, Teflon sealin rings on stator, new frictions and steels, fully rollerized

Cranked my new 523" up and broke in the cam and motor for 20 minutes between 2500-3000rpm-- everything went perfect!


Let everything cool down. Gave everything a once over and cranked it up to go for a drive---- worst nightmare--- it didn't do anything in any gear---

The truck didn't even flinch in any gear---

I'm thinking it may be a valve body issue, do you guys have any ideas? I need a plan to troubleshoot this thing.

Thanks,
Jon
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Post  J.Toney on March 16th 2014, 10:50 pm

Did the converter get installed correctly? Is it for sure pumping fluid? How much did it take? Check the fluid level with the engine off, then again while running. It should be way overfull on the stick, then drop to level when running.
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Post  460bronco on March 16th 2014, 10:57 pm

I put the converter in just like always... Fluid is to the full mark in park idling.

I just jacked it up and the tires barely turn in reverse and do nothing in the forward gears... When I revved it up in forward the tires actually turned backwards very slowly!!!!

Any more ideas?
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Post  supervel45 on March 17th 2014, 12:01 am

If you are positive the fluid lever is correct, I would put a line pressure guage on it and take some pressure readings. It is easy to get a false reading on a transmission dipstick, so check carefully. I will grab my ATSG book and give you the list of causes, if you like.

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Post  Gregaust on March 17th 2014, 5:09 am

460bronco wrote:I put the converter in just like always... Fluid is to the full mark in park idling.

Doesn't mean it is right  No  How much freeplay was there at all times during install, how much did the coverter move forward to mount up? Something not right in the pump , rare for a valvebody to have zero pressure
Get a pressure guage on the test port or remove a cooler line and check for flow from the front line

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Post  J.Toney on March 17th 2014, 6:44 am

My first concerns would be
-How much fluid did you actually put in?
-is the dipstick level changing from not running (for a period of time) to running? This wil indincate the pump is indeed moving fluid. You can check other ways also, but this is pretty easy
-is there any pressure on a gauge?
-is the t-case in gear?
-is the manual valve on the VB lined up with the manual shaft? This is something that happens.
These would be my first checks, FWIW. Usually something pretty minor or very major to make an issue like this.
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Post  460bronco on March 17th 2014, 7:45 am

I'll get a gauge on it this week to check pressure.  

Can someone explain more about the manual valve being lined up?  This valve body is the old style where the detents for the gears are in the valve body not with that rooster comb touching the spring on the case.

Oh and it's got about 12 quarts of fluid in it.  (Aluminum deeper pan and 11" converter)

Thanks for all the help guys!!!
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Post  airford1 on March 17th 2014, 12:06 pm

Just thought I would let you know that if your stuff burnt down ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well that would be a worst nightmare. The trans not working is just a LARGE pain in the ass. You will figure it out.
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Post  460bronco on March 17th 2014, 12:26 pm

I hear you Airford1. Especially with a 200lb NP205 hanging off the back.
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Post  supervel45 on March 17th 2014, 10:40 pm

460bronco wrote:I'll get a gauge on it this week to check pressure.  

Can someone explain more about the manual valve being lined up?  This valve body is the old style where the detents for the gears are in the valve body not with that rooster comb touching the spring on the case.

Oh and it's got about 12 quarts of fluid in it.  (Aluminum deeper pan and 11" converter)

Thanks for all the help guys!!!
On the rod that the shift linkage hooks to on the Valve body, has to be adjusted corectly. If the trans is in park on the external lever of the transmission, the shift lever is then set inside of the truck to park. If it is off a little, the trans can be between gears. Something to check. If it is a GM style bolt up convertor, be sure the convertor bolts are installed? LOL I am sure yours are, but somewhere at sometime, someone might have forgotten these, especially if two or more people where helping each other. You have a few things to get you started, hope it is something easy, and it works out good.

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Post  460bronco on March 22nd 2014, 2:07 pm

Ok... Got some pressure #'s now.
Park: 100
Rev: 75
Neutral: 50
1: 75
2: 75
3: 75


All of these numbers are idling about 750rpm...

What's next boys? We are slinging wrenches right now taking the tranny out
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Post  J.Toney on March 22nd 2014, 2:38 pm

Is this at idle?
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Post  460bronco on March 22nd 2014, 3:14 pm

Yes about 750rpm
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Post  supervel45 on March 22nd 2014, 3:36 pm

When you get the transmission out, start by checking the input shaft endplay, and recording the measurement. I would then take the oil pump apart and check the gears for damage, and measure the side clearance of the gears to the housing. I would pull the valve body before removeing the pump, and air test all the pistons. You can check the endplay then, before you pull the pump. Hope no one resurfaced the oil pump gears without cutting the housing? It has been done before.

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Post  supervel45 on March 22nd 2014, 3:45 pm

Use a feeler guage between the pump and thrust washer to check end play if you don't have a dial indicator, if you did not know, if you did, disregard. You have enough OP to move the wheels if the vechicle was on jack stands. I would go very slowly and check everthing twice. This is strait out of the Ford and ATSG C-6 manual: No Drive in Any Gear: 1. Improper Fluid Level. 2. Damaged or Improperly Adjusted Band. 3.Improper Clutch or Band application, or Oil Line Control Pressure. 4.Internal Leakage. 5. Valve Body Loose. 6. Damaged or Worn Clutches. 7. Sticking or Dirty Valve body.

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Post  460bronco on March 22nd 2014, 4:31 pm

Thanks Supervel45! I'm getting on it! I'll keep you guys posted
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Post  supervel45 on March 22nd 2014, 4:41 pm

Your Welcome. All I can say is go slow and be Very "Anual Retinitive", AKA the new "Meticulus", in your tear down and inspection. Your are in a bad spot now if it is not an obovious problem. Hopefully it is something Stupid Simple, and easily rectified, cheaply. Cool Neutral 

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Post  460bronco on March 22nd 2014, 4:49 pm

How hard is it suppose to be to turn the input shaft? I can barely get a good enough grip with my hand to turn it... And I can't pull it out
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Post  460bronco on March 22nd 2014, 5:02 pm

How bout only 1 out of 5 bolts holding the stato to the pump! That sounds like a major leak to me!
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Post  supervel45 on March 22nd 2014, 5:14 pm

460bronco wrote:How bout only 1 out of 5 bolts holding the stato to the pump!  That sounds like a major  leak to me!
 It don't sound good at all. But I still would tear it down and recheck everthing. If you or whoever made a mistake like this there maybe others? It won't take that long and pulling and installing C-6's is a pain, at least to me. If the trans is vertical the input shaft is not real hard to turn, but it takes a little effort. I don't mean tear all the pistons out of the drums, by the way, but go through it none the less. I don't know the history of the build and what all was done. So it is just a sugestion. You will have to make the call. Shit, I just re-read your post I thought you where only missing one bolt. Beer and Automatics don't mix whell even when your good at both sometimes.  Suspect 

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Post  460bronco on March 23rd 2014, 1:25 am

New c6 doesn't do anything in any gear???? Image_zps29b06931


This is what I found when I pulled the pump!  Checked through everything else, and everything looked good!  We got the trans back in and it works flawless!  Leaving 4 out of 5 bolts out here = transmission won't do anything!!!


It really was great getting to drive my truck after 16 months of no driving.  It started as a simple re-build of the motor which blossomed into building a 523" stroker!  While the bottom end of the motor was being built, I decided to go through my transmission.  I also changed tire size which made a gear change necessary in the 9" and dana 44.  The first drive was great after all of the hard work that has gone into the build.  Thanks for everyone's help on here!  Couldn't have done it without you guys!

Jon
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Post  Gregaust on March 23rd 2014, 5:10 am

Wow, you serious ..  Shocked  That's a major F up. couldn't have been air checked on assembly  No 

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Post  J.Toney on March 23rd 2014, 7:51 am

My guess is its a reman pump, and someone just tossed it in. Usually, they are completely assembled with fresh parts, but ONE bolt holding them together. I take them apart to check things over anyhow, but maybe someone else didnt? I always put my fasteners, springs, snap rings, etc in a basket. Seems like if that's was the case, you'd notice 4 bolts left over. And I agree, never got air-tested. Simple fix is the best fix. Good job!
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Post  supervel45 on March 23rd 2014, 5:05 pm

How is your 2-3 shift with that monster stroker doing? Glad you got it back together and running. Looking forward to getting mine going also. What gears did you go with and what tire size? I have a Dana 44 over here you are welcome to come pull down, and replace an axle in our F 150 4X4. All hub allen bolts seized on the Warn Lock out hub. It's going to be fun. As much as you had off the truck at one time, you did good, getting it all back together and running, so I would ingore all the coment's, including mine, and just learn from the mistake's. We all make them.

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Post  460bronco on March 23rd 2014, 6:50 pm

Thanks supervel!  The 1-2 and 2-3 shift are really firm from what I can tell so far!  
I put 4.56 gears front and back with 37" hummer goodyear wranglers.  Full spool rear and a dana power-lok limited slip up front... Chromoly shafts.  On the way home today I was cruising about 2700 rpm at around 62mph (as close as my wife could tell on her speedo).  Oh and the converter feels good too!

Previously I had a flat-top piston 466 with dove heads and I ran race fuel.  235/241 @ .050 solid cam and the converter felt fairly loose to me for my use... It flashed to the 3700-4000 range when I mashed hard on it.  

Now I have a custom forged dished probe piston that Lem hooked me up with so I could get back to the pump gas friendly zone with the stroker.  Cam is now a 237/255 @.050 solid flat.  

My vision for this build was a hunting truck that was tough and I could really use hard!  Now the converter starts to tighten up good in the 24-2700 range, which is just what I asked PTC for!

I eased into it from a few stop lights and let me say this.... It will roast these 37" Goodyears!!!
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