Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 19th 2014, 8:52 pm

When I saw the Boss9 my first thought was to clone one. I called a close friend into Fords and Mustangs, that has a 429 SCJ. He does alot of fab work and builds cars out of boxes of parts that people give up on. He would not go for the 8-10K or so for the head intake header package though. I think after he pulled the SCJ out of his 1967 Convertable Mustang, and went Cleveland, he had enough of it (BBF in Mustang). I hope it all goes smoothly durning your build, and you found the best place for advise around here I think. Keep us posted.

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 19th 2014, 8:55 pm

windsor wrote:Thinking that carb would be a tad large for your goals?  Maybe a 1250 would suffice.

I don't know anything about motors so I could not tell you if the carburetor is too big or not I have a friend that is building the motor tells me what parts to buy and that is what I do. He is a very knowledge about motors he work on motors for a living and if it don't work then I guess i will just have to buy one that will fit the need. I will be posting the results of the motor once we get it together.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 19th 2014, 8:59 pm

supervel45 wrote:When I saw the Boss9 my first thought was to clone one. I called a close friend into Fords and Mustangs, that has a 429 SCJ. He does alot of fab work and builds cars out of boxes of parts that people give up on. He would not go for the 8-10K or so for the head intake header package though. I think after he pulled the SCJ out of his 1967 Convertable Mustang, and went Cleveland, he had enough of it (BBF in Mustang). I hope it all goes smoothly durning your build, and you found the best place for advise around here I think. Keep us posted.

Thank you, I do appreciate your kind words and you will be one the first to know about my build once its done.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 19th 2014, 9:03 pm

Wrong poster, sorry about that. Thought it was you from across the pond.


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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  Lem Evans on March 19th 2014, 9:19 pm

273* @ .050" anit no smooth deal on the street unless one has a clutch...which Kaase's Mustang did have.

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 19th 2014, 9:25 pm

Max Effort. Wink 

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 19th 2014, 9:26 pm

Lem Evans wrote:273* @ .050" anit no smooth deal on the street unless one has a clutch...which Kaase's Mustang did have.

Thank you Lem, Yes I it will be a custom cam for this build and I was told the cam will be the last thing to concentrate on. We are going to focus on compression and piston first as well as how much hp per ci. to maximize for street use.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 19th 2014, 9:57 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-kgD0ZPsIc                                                                                  You would want a loose convertor for sure. Like I said get with your grinder after you get all the parts/specs., picked out. You also want it to still have some RPM up top. If you loose some bottom end it will be a good thing on drag radials on the street. Alot of guys around here used to run a Crane R274 Roller in their BBC's 468's on the street, but they only had one reason, and it was not gas mileage or manners. Shocked He did say he wanted to one up GM, kind of.

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 19th 2014, 10:17 pm

supervel45 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-kgD0ZPsIc                                                                                  You would want a loose convertor for sure. Like I said get with your grinder after you get all the parts/specs., picked out. You also want it to still have some RPM up top. If you loose some bottom end it will be a good thing on drag radials on the street. Alot of guys around here used to run a Crane R274 Roller in their BBC's 468's on the street, but they only had one reason, and it was not gas mileage or manners. Shocked He did say he wanted to one up GM, kind of.

I know he told me that he will find a convertor for the transmission and spec out the stall as well for the build so that everything match. I 'm not worried about gas mileage i think the manners of the engine will be the most important thing to some degree. I don't plan on revving the motor past 6700 rpm's
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 19th 2014, 10:29 pm

That sounds good. Get a cam cut to match the rpm, and put the powerband to match your goals, and parts/chasis combination. Big engines need a little more cam than say a 460 to get the same redline RPM. I am used to big cams for the weekend deals, so they don't bother me. Daily driver's are a different story. If you are under 10MPG on a HotRod you are kind of past the point of no return anyway, might as whell make it worth while.

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  bbf-falcon on March 20th 2014, 6:52 am

I wouldnt let the chevy guy pick the cam imo. Get someone like Lem, Blake, or Randy plck you out one.good luck w/build, should be a handful on the street. Very Happy 

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 20th 2014, 3:03 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:I wouldnt let the chevy guy pick the cam imo. Get someone like Lem, Blake, or Randy plck you out one.good luck w/build, should be a handful on the street. Very Happy 
                                                                                                                                                    I would heed Falcons advice on the camshaft, and I hope your builder is a good friend, as I would not let the Chevy guys around my area tough one of my Fords if possiable. With the amount of money involved with your build, the little extra for a custom cam and shipping is worth every penny. I would also send the heads to Charlie and have them max ported and flowed, since it is such a large engine, and you want 900 plus HP, before I picked a cam, but thats just me.

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 20th 2014, 7:03 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:I wouldnt let the chevy guy pick the cam imo. Get someone like Lem, Blake, or Randy plck you out one.good luck w/build, should be a handful on the street. Very Happy 

Well first of all he is a very close friend of mind. I do trust him with my build also if it wasn't for him I would not be building this motor at all. He is the one that encourage me building a large motor. I will let him measure everything and see what he comes up with then run it by Lem, Blake or Randy and take it from there then buy the custom cam from either of the guys here.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 20th 2014, 7:18 pm

supervel45 wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:I wouldnt let the chevy guy pick the cam imo. Get someone like Lem, Blake, or Randy plck you out one.good luck w/build, should be a handful on the street. Very Happy 
                                                                                                                                                    I would heed Falcons advice on the camshaft, and I hope your builder is a good friend, as I would not let the Chevy guys around my area tough one of my Fords if possiable. With the amount of money involved with your build, the little extra for a custom cam and shipping is worth every penny. I would also send the heads to Charlie and have them max ported and flowed, since it is such a large engine, and you want 900 plus HP, before I picked a cam, but thats just me.

Well My goal is to get the most horsepower from the motor that I can and build around it in-which I think is the smart thing to do. I really don't care about gas mileage and the car is going to be a weekend car only. Like local meet and hangouts some local races. Believe me the car is far from ready with this large motor. I will still need to beef up a lot of areas to match all the horsepower. This is just a start to get the car rolling.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  dfree383 on March 20th 2014, 7:35 pm

Even with a big inch engine you need to watch the duration, it will cause reversion and real poor driving at lower engine speeds.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 20th 2014, 8:40 pm

dfree383 wrote:Even with a big inch engine you need to watch the duration, it will cause reversion and real poor driving at lower engine speeds.

Thank You Dave sounds like good advise on choosing a cam. I don't want to have poor driving performance a low rpm's.
I live in texas but it dont mean I ride horses or like to get buck either lol
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  jasonf on March 20th 2014, 9:29 pm

CHARLIEB wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:I wouldnt let the chevy guy pick the cam imo. Get someone like Lem, Blake, or Randy plck you out one.good luck w/build, should be a handful on the street. Very Happy 

Well first of all he is a very close friend of mind. I do trust him with my build also if it wasn't for him I would not be building this motor at all. He is the one that encourage me building a large motor. I will let him measure everything and see what he comes up with then run it by Lem, Blake or Randy and take it from there then buy the custom cam from either of the guys here.    

I think you are missing the underlying advice here. Building a BBC and building a BBF are not the same thing and I believe that is what Rick is saying. This applies to the camshaft requirements as well as the rest of the engine. But what happens is these BBC assemblers think they can build anything and after building a BBF that turns out to be a turd they go around saying how BBF's don't make any power. That is why you keep hearing the same names keep coming up. These are people that have built plenty of BBF's and have experience not just a "How to build your 460" book on their bench.

Good luck with the build!
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  Copperhead on March 21st 2014, 7:21 am

supervel45 wrote:I would also send the heads to Charlie and have them max ported and flowed, since it is such a large engine, and you want 900 plus HP, before I picked a cam, but thats just me.
 
Head Porting is not necessary to acheive the desired results.
 
EX:
My previous combo (originally a Seth Hembree 557 w/ A-460 heads w/ 2.30 valves[stock castings], 10.8:1 compression) w/ a small cam, made 850hp
 
My new 598 engine w/ unported A-460 heads [2.35 valve] made just under 1000 (995.1 @6500 to be exact).  BUT,......it does have a lot more compression and cam.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 21st 2014, 9:51 am

jasonf wrote:
CHARLIEB wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:I wouldnt let the chevy guy pick the cam imo. Get someone like Lem, Blake, or Randy plck you out one.good luck w/build, should be a handful on the street. Very Happy 

Well first of all he is a very close friend of mind. I do trust him with my build also if it wasn't for him I would not be building this motor at all. He is the one that encourage me building a large motor. I will let him measure everything and see what he comes up with then run it by Lem, Blake or Randy and take it from there then buy the custom cam from either of the guys here.    

I think you are missing the underlying advice here. Building a BBC and building a BBF are not the same thing and I believe that is what Rick is saying. This applies to the camshaft requirements as well as the rest of the engine. But what happens is these BBC assemblers think they can build anything and after building a BBF that turns out to be a turd they go around saying how BBF's don't make any power. That is why you keep hearing the same names keep coming up. These are people that have built plenty of BBF's and have experience not just a "How to build your 460" book on their bench.
Good luck with the build!

Hello Jason, You may have a good point here and this is why I'm on this form for advise. He is a very good Mechanic and work on ford motors for a living. His job is working on natural gas wells that uses 460 motor to pump natural gas so he has some experience with ford motors I'm not saying that he is the best in building motor but has the know how. I figured I would ask for help in all directions to make this thing work out right.

I figured is best to get ideas from people who have build a motor like the one I'm building or similar to give me some good advise as some here already have. This is going to be my first race motor and with all the money I have spent I do want it to be the best it can be. I started from scratch from oil pan to carburetor everything is new as we all know that none of this comes cheep. So therefore any input is more than welcome I plan on working on the motor next weekend.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 21st 2014, 10:01 am

Copperhead wrote:
supervel45 wrote:I would also send the heads to Charlie and have them max ported and flowed, since it is such a large engine, and you want 900 plus HP, before I picked a cam, but thats just me.
 
Head Porting is not necessary to acheive the desired results.
 
EX:
My previous combo (originally a Seth Hembree 557 w/ A-460 heads w/ 2.30 valves[stock castings], 10.8:1 compression) w/ a small cam, made 850hp
 
My new 598 engine w/ unported A-460 heads [2.35 valve] made just under 1000 (995.1 @6500 to be exact).  BUT,......it does have a lot more compression and cam.

Hello Cooperhead..... I was looking at your build and pretty much both motors are very similar. I think the only differences is the compression. I love the setup you have and its making great power. At one time I was going back and forward with decisions on the 340cc and the 360cc I was told that I did not need the 360 heads and opt for the 340cc heads. I guess it would have to come down to compression for pump gas and be able to drive on the street to local gatherings and street drags. This car is going to be a weekend car by all means and not an everyday driver. What is your intake ? If you have any?
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 21st 2014, 10:21 am

Lem Evans wrote:273* @ .050" anit no smooth deal on the street unless one has a clutch...which Kaase's Mustang did have.

Hello Mr. Evans ....... I will getting with you about a cam for this build shortly. I have my friend to come over next week so we can cc the heads and spec out the piston for this build I was thinking about maximizing the bore on the motor to a 4.625 or should I stick with 4.600 bore also what is a good quench for a big block motor as this one ? I was wanting 11.7 compression but I don't know if this compression would be good for the street. What would be ideal compression for a weekend warrior ? I will be buying the cam, Kasse oil pump and other things to finish this build from you.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  Copperhead on March 21st 2014, 11:06 am

CHARLIEB wrote:Hello Cooperhead..... I was looking at your build and pretty much both motors are very similar.
What is your intake ? If you have any?
 
Im using the Trick Flow R-series A-460 Intake Manifold, part # 54400111,.....slightly ported.
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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  CHARLIEB on March 21st 2014, 11:50 am

Copperhead wrote:
CHARLIEB wrote:Hello Cooperhead..... I was looking at your build and pretty much both motors are very similar.
What is your intake ? If you have any?
 
Im using the Trick Flow R-series A-460 Intake Manifold, part # 54400111,.....slightly ported.

Yes I have the same big Sucker Myself. I will have to see how it will look in a Foxbody Mustang. I cant remember your Pistons but I'm going with Diamond custom Piston in order to cut down on compression. How is the motor coming along? I know you working on the converter to match the setup you have.


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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  c.evans on March 21st 2014, 12:50 pm

Copperhead wrote:
supervel45 wrote:I would also send the heads to Charlie and have them max ported and flowed, since it is such a large engine, and you want 900 plus HP, before I picked a cam, but thats just me.
 
Head Porting is not necessary to acheive the desired results.
 
EX:
My previous combo (originally a Seth Hembree 557 w/ A-460 heads w/ 2.30 valves[stock castings], 10.8:1 compression) w/ a small cam, made 850hp
 
My new 598 engine w/ unported A-460 heads [2.35 valve] made just under 1000 (995.1 @6500 to be exact).  BUT,......it does have a lot more compression and cam.
 
 
Since my name was mentioned by supervel45, I'd like to say this.
 
1. I agree that head porting the new style TFS A-460 heads is not necessary to acheive the desired results. Those particular heads are very nice out of the box, however with other brands of heads it might be much more necessary to port and flow test the heads.
 
2. However, there are no downsides to proper head porting and flow testing.
 
3. The more "mechanically correct" we can make the intake runner, the intake port, and the exhaust port, in terms of flow,,, then the less camshaft and compression you have to run in order to achieve the same desired results.
 
4. In other words, with a mechanically better flowing head, you don't have to "crutch" the airflow as much with increased duration and lift from your cam, and the milder camshaft you can run.
 
Hope this helps,
Charlie Evans

 
 
 

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Re: Needing advise on a 598ci street friendly drag radial Foxbody on pump gas

Post  supervel45 on March 21st 2014, 2:35 pm

CHARLIEB wrote:
CDMBill wrote:Define max effort? Randy has laid out a practical approach. You can make more power, with decreasing longevity, how fast do you want to go? For roughly twice the money you can get 1000 hp.

Hey Bill... I want much power I can get out of this engine so if I can I get 1000hp that would be fine as well.  
This is what I was refering to. I should not have used the 900 "Plus" HP reference, I guess? I also mentioned that if it where "Me", I would have the heads ported and flowed to help with camshaft selection, so that the grinder would have the numbers on the heads in hand. Also like as mentioned above, there are other good reasons, also.

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