LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 23rd 2014, 12:17 pm

lghting94 wrote:Why on a street driven pump gas engine would your head gaskets cost over $200?  I used plain old felpro on my old race engine with 14.5 to 1 compression and never in all my years of racing did I have a head gasket issue.

Question 1.  How would pulling plug wire stop a wrist pin from knocking/ticking?  movement in this area is movement piston goes up then goes down at top it switches direction if there is extra clearance it will make noise.

Question 2.  Typically rod bearings do make a deeper knocking noise but generally at that point they are ready to toss the rod.  My theory is it generally starts as a ticking and get worse with time.

In my opinion your are going to keep asking the same question because you are not getting the answer you want to hear, by all means  continue to do so and let your engine and hard earned cash be wasted in a pile of scrap because you were being to cheap to take it out and find the problem.  

The reason I chose the head gaskets I have is because of compression ratio. The standard Felt Pro 1018 head gaskets that come in the gasket kit don't give me the correct compression ratio or quench I needed.

1) I was told by another guy that if you pull a plug wire that it will determine if the wrist pin is bad or , depending on if it keeps ticking it not. The reason being is that if the spark plug is not firing then there's not the pressure and force put on the wrist pin and therefore it won't tick....that's what I was told to check for so that's what I did.

Fyi...I'm not trying to be "cheap", I'm trying to identify the problem by asking questions so I know what to look for if or when I do have to pull the engine and tear it down. Im not going to just tear the engine apart without having some idea of what im looking for. Maybe you have all the money in the world to buy parts you don't need to replace, but I don't have that luxury. Im on a very tight and limited budget, so Im going to try to identify the problem first instead of wasting money that I don't have on parts that aren't damaged. If I knew what the problem was, I would be asking for help. I replaced the lifters because i thought they were damaged. If i knew for sure they weren't damaged, i wouldnt have wasted money buying new ones. Thats just stupid.

Im doing the tests and inspections you guys are advising I do and im reporting back with the results hoping you guys can tell me what it means. It has nothing to do with not getting the answer I want. That's not what this is about. I don't need criticism, I need help figuring out what is wrong with my engine. That's what these forums are about....helping others.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  lghting94 on July 23rd 2014, 1:20 pm

Good Luck And trust me I understand a tight budget very well and very limited time also but sometimes you need someone to bring it to your attention to do the right thing even though it may not be what you want to do. go back and re-read this entire thread you have already told us you have inspected the top end components of the engine(rockers, pushrods, lifters, top side of heads) this unfortunately leaves going deeper into the engine to find your issue. On a budget tearing down a fairly fresh engine should only require replacing gaskets all other components should be able to be re-used except whatever is found to be the problem. Just remember to keep everything in order and put in back in the same location you take it out of. As for you head gaskets from what you are saying I am guessing they are either a MLS(multi layer steel) or copper head gasket of a specific thickness. It is my understanding that the MLS gaskets can be reused at least once if not more times if spray with a sealer like copperkote.
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 23rd 2014, 1:58 pm

lghting94 wrote:Good Luck And trust me I understand a tight budget very well and very limited time also but sometimes you need someone to bring it to your attention to do the right thing even though it may not be what you want to do.  go back and re-read this entire thread you have already told us you have inspected the top end components of the engine(rockers, pushrods, lifters, top side of heads) this unfortunately leaves going deeper into the engine to find your issue.  On a budget tearing down a fairly fresh engine should only require replacing gaskets all other components should be able to be re-used except whatever is found to be the problem.  Just remember to keep everything in order and put in back in the same location you take it out of.  As for you head gaskets from what you are saying I am guessing they are either a MLS(multi layer steel) or copper head gasket of a specific thickness.  It is my understanding that the MLS gaskets can be reused at least once if not more times if spray with a sealer like copperkote.

I hear what you're saying. And to answer your question, yes im using a MLS head gasket from Cometic. That's why they were so expensive. I did not cheap out on parts when I built this engine. In fact, the tie bar roller lifters cost me more than the roller cam did ($400). That's why im not just going to blindly start throwing money at this.

I have yet to pull the valve springs off and inspect them and I still want to do a compression test, per advice from someone on here. But I was hoping that the test I did last night with revving the engine and the ticking noise disappeared would have revealed some specific answers. I'm still wanting to know if the fact that the ticking noise disappeared when I increased the rpm (more oil flow to the lifters forcing them to pump up more) indicates that the oil pump might be the problem, or not. Im still interested in knowing the answer to this question. If the oil pump is bad, then it's senseless to pull the engine apart and waste time and money if I can just replace the part that we discover to be damaged. That's my train of thought anyway, right or wrong.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  JBR-3 on July 23rd 2014, 4:00 pm

Could there be an oil restrictor in one of the passages ?
You could have good oil pressure to the bearings but not enough for hydraulic lifters.
?????

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 23rd 2014, 4:46 pm

JBR-3 wrote:Could there be an oil restrictor in one of the passages ?
You could have good oil pressure to the bearings but not enough for hydraulic lifters.
?????

The only oil restriction I can possibly think of is if a cam bearing might have spun or partially spun reducing the flow of oil. I never had this problem till I sucked air into the engine so something happened as a result of this; could have spun a bearing or something was damaged.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  cool40 on July 23rd 2014, 7:49 pm

You can reuse cometic head gaskets. If your oil pump is making 75psi its ok.
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 23rd 2014, 9:03 pm

cool40 wrote:You can reuse cometic head gaskets. If your oil pump is making 75psi its ok.
That's good to know about the gaskets. That's the first positive news I've had so far. Question...will I need to use some sort of spray on adhesive if I reuse the gaskets?
Thanks for the info about the oil pump. That's what I needed to know.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  bbf-falcon on July 23rd 2014, 9:30 pm

Just clean them up and install.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 27th 2014, 2:47 pm

Ok guys I have some good news and some bad news. I just got done doing a compression test and although the results were not good whatsoever, for some odd reason I feel much better; basically because I now have an idea of "WHERE" the problem is and what to focus on when I tear the engine down. It looks like I have a bigger problem than I thought and the problem looks to be in the 6, 7, & 8 cylinders and I'm also suspicious of #4. Here's the psi readings....

1=175, 2=176, 3=173, 4=153, 5=170, 6=42, 7=20, 8=40

When I pulled the spark plugs, #7 & #8 plugs had some metal material stuck to the electrode (I think that's what it's called). I'm assuming it's material from broken rings???????? I guess I'll find out when I get the motor torn apart. It's sounding like a complete rebuild, but we'll see.

Anyway, thanks again for the help. I truly am grateful. I'll report back when I get the engine tore down. I'll work on that in the next couple weeks as time allows.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  cool40 on July 27th 2014, 2:56 pm

Sounds like it may have detonated.  Suspect 
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  69F100 on July 27th 2014, 4:42 pm

cool40 wrote:Sounds like it may have detonated.  Suspect 


X2
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 27th 2014, 8:40 pm

I am using the highest octane available; 92 octane. The timing is set at 14*. I didn't hear any knocking when I was driving nor was it overheating. I hope is wasn't detonation that caused this.

Question....would lack of oil cause the rings to break? Could broken rings cause the almost non-existent compression?

I tried to post pictures of the plugs, but for some reason it won't upload the pictures because it says the picture is too big. However, I was able to upload the pictures on another site I've been on; 460ford.com...

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  69F100 on July 27th 2014, 8:49 pm

I would just about bet if it was detonation it melted the pistons pull the heads it will tell you
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 27th 2014, 8:52 pm

69F100 wrote: I would just about bet if it was detonation it melted the pistons pull the heads it will tell you

I'll be pulling the engine sometime in the next couple weeks as time allows. More than likely I'll work on it after work this week and hopefully get it pulled out by the end of the week. One I get the heads pulled off, I'll let ya know what I found. I'd rather replace the pistons instead of the heads. Hopefully it's just some broken rings. We'll see...

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  kim on July 27th 2014, 9:15 pm

Who built it? Ring gap too tight??? busts rings.

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on July 27th 2014, 9:28 pm

I always thought 160 was considered max cranking pressure for pump gas.
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 27th 2014, 9:34 pm

kim wrote:Who built it?  Ring gap too tight???  busts rings.  

I bought the block, distributor and piston rings from a guy in Tacoma. He's a master engine builder and specialized in BBF and very good at what he does. He filed and fit the rings to the block, so I doubt the ring gaps were wrong, but who knows. I don't recall what the ring gaps were set at. I assembled the engine.


Last edited by 78 F150 on July 28th 2014, 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on July 27th 2014, 10:16 pm



Consider me out of this topic so the lawyers don't come knocking.
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 27th 2014, 10:30 pm

No lawyers will be contacted....LOL Smile

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  dirt_worker on July 27th 2014, 11:22 pm

Youre gonna find that the pistons on those cylinders are melted around the intake valve reliefs (in the thin spot above the ring land) when you get the heads off...
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  cool40 on July 28th 2014, 12:19 am

dirt_worker wrote:Youre gonna find that the pistons on those cylinders are melted around the intake valve reliefs (in the thin spot above the ring land) when you get the heads off...
^^^this....and probably the top edge on the piston.the junk on the plugs would be piston.
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  lghting94 on July 28th 2014, 8:23 am

78 F150 wrote:I am using the highest octane available; 92 octane. The timing is set at 14*. I didn't hear any knocking when I was driving nor was it overheating. I hope is wasn't detonation that caused this.

this is only part of setting your timing your initial timing is set at 14 but what is your total timing after mechanical advance and vacuum advance? If you didn't check this it could be as much as 60 degree or higher when driving, which can cause detonation.
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  78 F150 on July 28th 2014, 10:49 am

lghting94 wrote:
78 F150 wrote:I am using the highest octane available; 92 octane. The timing is set at 14*. I didn't hear any knocking when I was driving nor was it overheating. I hope is wasn't detonation that caused this.

this is only part of setting your timing your initial timing is set at 14 but what is your total timing after mechanical advance and vacuum advance?  If you didn't check this it could be as much as 60 degree or higher when driving, which can cause detonation.
Honestly, I don't know.. I didn't check it after setting the initial timing. However, the distributor was recurved and all advance was done by 2800 rpm & I think the total was supposed to be at 32° or 34°. I'm going off of memory so I could be a little off, but those numbers come to mind.

Question...if I have 10.13 compression and my psi is 15 psi too high, does anyone know how to calculate what the compression would be with 15 less psi? Would 9.5 compression be ok for towing?

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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  dirt_worker on July 28th 2014, 11:52 am

does this engine have flat top pistons or dished?
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Re: LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on July 28th 2014, 12:05 pm

I will try to find the web site where you can enter your compression and can specs and it calculates your cranking paid. I think it was an Australian Turbo site.
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