460 Won't start when Hot....

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460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 15th 2014, 6:50 pm

Helping my dad get his new street rod '56 Ford up and running today, and im having some trouble. When he bought the car it had been sitting, and would barely run, so it needed all the old vanished flushed out of the fuel system, as well as a carb rebuild. We got all of that finished, fresh gas, new fuel filters ect. and finally got it running It starts and runs beautifully when its cold, and you can drive it anywhere, no issues, but if you shut it off, and try to restart it forget it, its seems like the starter can barely turn it over. I'm thinking that the starter may be bad, but i'm not sure. Its got one of those, old style big starters on it, its like the size of a coffee can. Motor is basically a stock rebuilt 460 with DOVE heads, not sure, but its really mild, the car is just a nice cruiser. Just wanted to see if I was on the right track, or if there was something else I need to check...Thanks Smile 
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  aquartlow on June 15th 2014, 7:26 pm

Using one of these makes a world of difference when starting a hot BBF. Stock 460 starter on the left, PMGR(permanent magnet gear reduction) starter on the right.


DB Electrical has them on Ebay for less than $50 delivered to your door. You can also look for one that fits a 92-96 F-250, F-350 with 460/auto. Good luck. Todd
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 15th 2014, 8:06 pm

aquartlow wrote:Using one of these makes a world of difference when starting a hot BBF. Stock 460 starter on the left, PMGR(permanent magnet gear reduction) starter on the right.


DB Electrical has them on Ebay for less than $50 delivered to your door. You can also look for one that fits a 92-96 F-250, F-350 with 460/auto. Good luck. Todd

Thank you much, I use that same starter on the race truck. I will have him get one, and that should fix it..  Very Happy
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  bbf-falcon on June 15th 2014, 8:58 pm

Check the timing also. Those big oem starters should work fine on that engine. When they get hot they need more umph that when cold. Check your ground and hot cables also.

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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  69F100 on June 15th 2014, 9:03 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:Check the timing also. Those big oem starters should work fine on that engine. When they get hot they need more umph that when cold. Check your ground and hot cables  also.

X2 cables can drive you crazy sometimes
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 15th 2014, 9:17 pm

Ok, he checked the timing, it was a little high, so he retarded it a couple points, car ran better after that, but the starting issue persists. I checked the ground, and its fine, didn't check the hot cable, other than to make sure it was tight..
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  maverick on June 16th 2014, 8:14 am

You can find out if it's a timing issue if you can crank the engine with ignition off or disconnected. But it sounds like the starter may be getting heat-soaked. Is it really close to headers/exhaust pipes?

For a replacement, I'd recommend the '96 F250-350 deal. Most parts chains will give you a lifetime warranty and you'll never buy another one. Cool 
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  Foxfire85 on June 16th 2014, 7:50 pm

I just got over this issue in my fox. I tried everything. New optima battery, ran a dedicated ground for the starter (amongst other grounds), wrapped the starter in thermal shielding, dropped the timing, welding wire battery cable, and so forth. I just kind of dealt with it while the weather was crappy because it's no real simple task to put a starter on a fox with long tubes that encase the starter.

Finally got around to putting a powermaster mini gear reduction starter on it about a week ago and all symptoms are cured. Bumped timing back up and I'm ready to race.

You're problem is ultimately heat soak on the starter, but do check the grounds and maybe add a couple because in all honesty, out of all that I did that seemed to help me the most aside from timing. Also make sure your battery has a good hot cranking amperage rating. Can make a night and day diference.

Good luck amigo
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A New Headache

Post  514F-1 on June 21st 2014, 3:39 pm

OK, guys, we managed to get the starting issue fixed this morning, turns out the timing was way off, so now the starter turns it over fine no matter what. Here is the next issue, the car will not start with the air cleaner on it!! It starts fine with it off, and then I can put it back on and it runs fine, until you try to start it with the air cleaner on. I thought it was the air/fuel mixture, but I adjusted that, and while it idles better, it still wont start with the air cleaner on. I have never seen of heard of this before, and pretty much at my wits end trying to help him with this thing, anyone have any suggestions, thanks.
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  Foxfire85 on June 21st 2014, 3:46 pm

What style carb is it? Really the only thing that pops to mind is to check and make sure the air cleaner lid is not resting on top of the carburetor vent tubes. That'll shut a motor down like right now. Other than that, I'm stumped. Keep tuning I reckon.
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  Dave C. on June 21st 2014, 3:49 pm

Does it die when you put the air cleaner on it while its running?

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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 21st 2014, 3:50 pm

Foxfire85 wrote:What style carb is it? Really the only thing that pops to mind is to check and make sure the air cleaner lid is not resting on top of the carburetor vent tubes. That'll shut a motor down like right now. Other than that, I'm stumped. Keep tuning I reckon.

Its and OLD 600 Holley, it doesn't even have vent tubes, that was one of the first things I thought of also.

Edit: Its got vent tubes, don't know what got me to thinking it didn't, but if it was resting on top of them, then it wouldn't run with the air cleaner on.


Last edited by 514F-1 on June 21st 2014, 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 21st 2014, 3:50 pm

Dave C. wrote:Does it die when you put the air cleaner on it while its running?

No, No, in fact it runs great, thats what has got me really stumped. We took it on a drive this morning, started it with no air cleaner, then, put the air cleaner on, ran great, probably a 15 mile round trip, got back and nothing, until we took the cleaner back off..
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  69F100 on June 21st 2014, 4:42 pm

514F-1 wrote:
Dave C. wrote:Does it die when you put the air cleaner on it while its running?

No, No, in fact it runs great, thats what has got me really stumped

does it have the vent on top of the bowl with the rubber flapper that closes when you give it the gas if so the air filter might be holding it closed
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 21st 2014, 5:45 pm

69F100 wrote:
514F-1 wrote:
Dave C. wrote:Does it die when you put the air cleaner on it while its running?

No, No, in fact it runs great, thats what has got me really stumped

does it have the vent on top of the bowl with the rubber flapper that closes when you give it the gas if so the air filter might be holding it closed

No, there is no rubber flapper there. Thanks for the suggestion though..
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Re: 460 Won't start when Hot....

Post  514F-1 on June 22nd 2014, 7:27 pm

Well I think that we may have found the trouble, he just called me and told me that the aircleaner was hitting the choke lever on that old carb, so when he thought he was choking the carb, it was only 1/2 way closed, he said he got the air cleaner to clear and now it starts, going to take it out and get it hot tomorrow and see how it acts when its warm.
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