Zero deck & Quenching

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Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 10:45 am

Hello, Guys I'm here again needing advise on my pump gas engine. I have taken a lot of good advise from all of you with your expert experience on big block fords.

What I'm needing to know is what would be a good quenching & if I zero deck the block would be a good thing? Looking at around 11.2 compression with Exxon 93 Octane. I see other people running a lot more compression on their build but I live at sea level in which is the lower part of Texas by this from what I have read that high altitude has a lot to do with running high compression.
1. Should I go with 4.600 or 4.625 Bore ?
2. Zero decking the block how important is it ?  
3. Quenching at .040 is it to tight for a big block ?
4. Max RPM 6800
5. Max compression you guys would run with an build as this one?
6. Transmission Th400
7. Rear Gears 3.00
8. Tires 275-50-15

1. Block - M-6010-A460
2. Carburetor - Quick Fuel QFX-Series 1450 cfm
3. Intake - Trick Flow® R-Series A460 Intake Manifold
4. Heads -  Trick Flow Specialties 87 cc  Intake Valve 2.350 in. (Non Ported)
5. Roller Lifters - Isky Red-Zone EZ-RollX  0.874 in. Roller Bushing
6. Roller Rocker Arms- Comp Cams Ultra Pro Magnum XD 1.8
7. Crankshaft - Scat Forged Standard Weight Crankshafts  4.500 Stroke
8. Connecting Rods - Eagle H-Beam 6.800 ARP2000 alloy Bolts
9. Cooling Fans- Electric Fan, Dual, 11 in. Diameter, Puller, 2,780 cfm
10. Electric Water Pumps - Meziere 300 Series 55 GPM

Bore                                                      4.625    
Stroke                                                   4.500      
Rod Length                                            6.800
Gasket Bore                                           4.685
Comp. Gasket                                        0.040
Block Deck Height                                10.295
Top Ring Down                                      0.350
Chamber Volume                                       87
Dish Volume                                           21.5  
Piston to Deck                                       0.000

Dimension results.
Total Volume                                     1360.29
Cylinder Volume                                1238.92
Clearance Volume                               121.37
Gasket Volume                                     11.29
Top Ring Volume                                    1.58
Deck Volume                                              0  
Piston Top Land                                    4.587
1/2 Stroke                                             2.25  
Compression Ht.                                   1.245
Cubic Inches                                       604.81
Compression ratio =                              11.21

Can you please give me your opinion. I need to order custom Diamond piston for my build.


Last edited by CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 12:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  rmcomprandy on July 9th 2014, 11:22 am

When using suspect octane fuel or higher than normal heat the "quench distance" is very important but, it does not provide anything extra with engines having high octane fuel running relatively cold.

When NEEDING quench ... less than .060" is preferred and more than .070" offers almost NO advantage what so ever.

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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 11:47 am

rmcomprandy wrote:When using suspect octane fuel or higher than normal heat the "quench distance" is very important but, it does not provide anything extra with engines having high octane fuel running relatively cold.

When NEEDING quench ... less than .060" is preferred and more than .070" offers almost NO advantage what so ever.

Hello Randy, My friend and I started this weekend ccing the heads and i notice that one of the heads that i had already sent back to pep boys was the wrong head. I have one head that is 87cc and the other one 83cc. I was getting ready to order the piston this week. This is why I am wanting to know if my calculation are right for my build. I want to quench much as possible and if need to zero deck the block to keep much heat out of the engine as possible and to prevent detonation.
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  Lem Evans on July 9th 2014, 12:26 pm

With a piston that big of dia. & short C.D. I'd suspect that it'll touch the head with .040".
 
Those deals rock more than one would think.

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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  cool40 on July 9th 2014, 1:39 pm

Lem Evans wrote:With a piston that big of dia. & short C.D. I'd suspect that it'll touch the head with .040".
 
Those deals rock more than one would think.
I can guarantee it will!  Embarassed Embarassed 
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 4:14 pm

cool40 wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:With a piston that big of dia. & short C.D. I'd suspect that it'll touch the head with .040".
 
Those deals rock more than one would think.
I can guarantee it will!  Embarassed Embarassed 


That is what I'm wanting to know. What do you think of leaving the piston 0.005 in the hole and a 0.040 gasket?
Thank you also cool 40


Last edited by CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 6:20 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 6:17 pm

Lem Evans wrote:With a piston that big of dia. & short C.D. I'd suspect that it'll touch the head with .040".
 
Those deals rock more than one would think.

That is what I'm wanting to know. What do you think of leaving the piston 0.005 in the hole and a 0.040 gasket?
Thank you Mr. Evans
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  cool40 on July 9th 2014, 8:55 pm

I have .050 now but really don't know if its enough. Thats a good reason to have an engine builder That knows his shit.guessing is a very expensive way to learn.
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 9th 2014, 10:08 pm

cool40 wrote:I have .050 now but really don't know if its enough. Thats a good reason to have an engine builder That knows his shit.guessing is a very expensive way to learn.

Hey cool40, So you running .050 and you don't think its enough what are you spinning your at? You are right about knowing your stuff when building a motor that is why I'm I come to this site to learn and get information because most of the guys where I live drives General Motors. I rather get information from guys driving Big Block Fords on the cool.

I'm not rich and this hobby is really expensive so I cant afford to make any mistakes. I rather buy high dollar parts and take my time building like I have been doing than just throw some parts and roll with it. Its going on three years now but I'm getting very close with that I hope to have it running before the summer is over.

I took yours and others advise about some parts that I had ordered in the beginning and exchange for better ones. This is going to be my first race motor so I have make sure its going to last for sometime before I will be able to rebuild again.

The main thing is for me to build it right the first time. Sorry to run on its funny though I don't talk this much at my first home this being my second home and that's the real deal.

Before I go I would like to thank everyone who have help me out with all my thousand of question. BIG UPS TO YOU GUYS YOU KEEP REAL.
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  Lem Evans on July 9th 2014, 10:18 pm

It'd depend somewhat on how much piston to wall clearance the pistons need.

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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  cool40 on July 9th 2014, 10:36 pm

Lem Evans wrote:It'd depend somewhat on how much piston to wall clearance the pistons need.
x2 and skirt length/design.i'm no engine builder so all i'll tell you is "more"deck clearance will run but not enough will beat the bearings out IF lucky! its not near worth the trouble to get that "0"deck! you need to get a good engine builder to do business with so you dont need to ask opinions. Wink 
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 10th 2014, 2:36 am

Lem Evans wrote:It'd depend somewhat on how much piston to wall clearance the pistons need.

Okay Thank You Lem.
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 10th 2014, 2:46 am

cool40 wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:It'd depend somewhat on how much piston to wall clearance the pistons need.
x2 and skirt length/design.i'm no engine builder so all i'll tell you is "more"deck clearance will run but not enough will beat the bearings out IF lucky! its not near worth the trouble to get that "0"deck! you need to get a good engine builder to do business with so you dont need to ask opinions. Wink 

Oh okay, Thank you. I have a pretty good engine builder that is a friend of mine he mostly work on general motors engines. I'm not saying he is not a good engine builder but I thought I would ask questions about ford products for reference.

Thanks for advise Cool40.
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  Lem Evans on July 10th 2014, 9:44 am

I.m.o. there is something gain & nothing to loose by moving out to ~ .050".
 
I generally will set the piston to head on my piston orders figuring a .045 gasket.
I stock .040, .045 and .051" gaskets......so when the customers deck is not exactly where it was thought to be we can move down to the .040" or up to the .051" thus getting out of the "trap".

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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  CHARLIEB on July 10th 2014, 2:52 pm

Lem Evans wrote:I.m.o. there is something gain & nothing to loose by moving out to ~ .050".
 
I generally will set the piston to head on my piston orders figuring a .045 gasket.
I stock .040, .045 and .051" gaskets......so when the customers deck is not exactly where it was thought to be we can move down to the .040" or up to the .051" thus getting out of the "trap".

I have emailed you Lem. I also called but you was not in at the time I called.
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Re: Zero deck & Quenching

Post  Lem Evans on July 10th 2014, 4:27 pm

you have mail

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