nitrous in mud racing

hi all. in process of building a new race truck 84 ranger bodied bronco chassis with a 466 running around 12:1 with ported dove c heads my question is to you guys already using spray how are u bringing it in with a controller or just all at once hit off the line??? second question is there any tips or tricks to tuning nitrous??? im new to that and im a bout 200hp shy of what the hot shots bring to the table for horse power

Mine all on the hit..

Read the plugs for nitrous

This being your first set up with the hose start small
Once you get to the track put a set of fresh plugs with little idle time make a full pass and shut it down and check plugs

But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?

I don't race in the mud mine is on pavement.

Bump the timing according to the amount used

You going to use a plate kit?

Yup nitrous express kit . Think it's limited to a 300hp shot

The nx kit comes with a pretty good detail on how they want you to run and set there stuff keep in mind they are giving safe tune but its a good start point.

What are your rules? Ours state one stage. Almost all are using minimal controls, Msd 7al3's, some msd6al with a start and step and a window switch. One guy had said he was going to try a progressive controller I'll see if he has it in this weekend.

68formalGT wrote:What are your rules? Ours state one stage. Almost all are using minimal controls, Msd 7al3's, some msd6al with a start and step and a window switch. One guy had said he was going to try a progressive controller I'll see if he has it in this weekend.

There is many ways to look at this, fist you want to get the tune right on the gas check the plugs lots and bring extras(different heat ranges), dont swing for the fences out of the gate see what it likes, follow the guidelines and step up in small increments.Tune, tune,tune. A progressive cortroller is a great tool for controlling the hit but until you get a handle on the tune it is one more thing that may complicate it for you. If you want to start off with a basic setup you could toggle it like a two stage with the toggle switch either arming a button or a rpm switch, if you want it to come on and stay on use the rpm switch and adjust the pill where you want it to come on, if it comes on too strong because the track wont hold it use the button to decide when it will hold it and press the button.

Should have been multi quote

Ok I bought the kit used so no tune instructions but I'm sure nx web site has them.
As for rules it's a run what ya bring open class where I'm going to spray but my truck also has to be set up for a vac class that I can run uncut dot tires up to 54 4 links allowed gutting allowed single carb no nitrous so gotta have the official hold my bottle and purge out for that class.

So really the controller is pointless till I figure out what the motor likes

bigben wrote: my truck also has to be set up for a vac class that I can run uncut dot tires up to 54 4 links allowed gutting allowed single carb no nitrous  

So really the controller is pointless till I figure out what the motor likes

I wouldn't worry about a controller if you fit into that vacuum class and your set up with a 4 link, I'd put the cuts on for the open class, turn the bottle on and let her eat!!

[quote="bigben"]But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?[/quote

Never understood this thought. And I'm certain that Steve Johnson and Monte Smith would agree..........

As long as the thing can roll to the line, do a burnout and come up on the brake clean, that's all that should matter. It's a N20 motor, it should be tuned to run on N20, not NA.

Now I should say that that should hold true for med/big tune ups; anything above 350. A smaller kit can be tuned similar to a NA setup since the power level is fairly low. Just my 2 cents

Same

yellowhorse7 wrote:

bigben wrote:But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?[/quote

Never understood this thought. And I'm certain that Steve Johnson and Monte Smith would agree..........

As long as the thing can roll to the line, do a burnout and come up on the brake clean, that's all that should matter. It's a N20 motor, it should be tuned to run on N20, not NA.

Now I should say that that should hold true for med/big tune ups; anything above 350. A smaller kit can be tuned similar to a NA setup since the power level is fairly low. Just my 2 cents

I have tried to explain this many times to people just starting off with n20 and they look at me like I'm a DA then they melt a piston and say this stuff kills a motor.... when in reality its the people listing to there friends that only read about it and never used it.

68formalGT wrote:

bigben wrote: my truck also has to be set up for a vac class that I can run uncut dot tires up to 54 4 links allowed gutting allowed single carb no nitrous  

So really the controller is pointless till I figure out what the motor likes

I wouldn't worry about a controller if you fit into that vacuum class and your set up with a 4 link, I'd put the cuts on for the open class, turn the bottle on and let her eat!!

I could drop to c and run cuts all the time but than limited to 38.5 tire

I'm confused so since I'm only going to shoot 250-300 max tuning it like a n/a motor is fine?

You really need to know what nx plate you have but.....

here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.

N20 jet -136.    Gas jet - 67.    This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best

Edit: flow the plate with the fuel jet you plan to use ( this is how I do it and works for me ) others do it different and I'm sure they will chime in...O also set the gap around .032 or so but no more than .035.

yellowhorse7 wrote:

bigben wrote:But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?[/quote

Never understood this thought. And I'm certain that Steve Johnson and Monte Smith would agree..........

As long as the thing can roll to the line, do a burnout and come up on the brake clean, that's all that should matter. It's a N20 motor, it should be tuned to run on N20, not NA.

Now I should say that that should hold true for med/big tune ups; anything above 350. A smaller kit can be tuned similar to a NA setup since the power level is fairly low. Just my 2 cents

richter69 wrote:Same

gmsmkr wrote:

yellowhorse7 wrote:

bigben wrote:But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?[/quote

Never understood this thought. And I'm certain that Steve Johnson and Monte Smith would agree..........

As long as the thing can roll to the line, do a burnout and come up on the brake clean, that's all that should matter. It's a N20 motor, it should be tuned to run on N20, not NA.

Now I should say that that should hold true for med/big tune ups; anything above 350. A smaller kit can be tuned similar to a NA setup since the power level is fairly low. Just my 2 cents

I have tried to explain this many times to people just starting off with n20 and they look at me like I'm a DA then they melt a piston and say this stuff kills a motor....  when in reality its the people listing to there friends that only read about it and never used it.

bigben wrote:

68formalGT wrote:

bigben wrote: my truck also has to be set up for a vac class that I can run uncut dot tires up to 54 4 links allowed gutting allowed single carb no nitrous  

So really the controller is pointless till I figure out what the motor likes

I wouldn't worry about a controller if you fit into that vacuum class and your set up with a 4 link, I'd put the cuts on for the open class, turn the bottle on and let her eat!!

I could drop to c and run cuts all the time but than limited to 38.5 tire

I'm confused so since I'm only going to shoot 250-300 max tuning it like a n/a motor is fine?

As for the upper quotes (x2/x3/x4 AGREED) I will try to simplify it, you already have your motor tuned off the bottle correct? This means you know what it likes and how to set it where it likes NA(baseline tune) If you want to go into the nitrous classes do the reading find out how to set up and baseline the nitrous for what the motor likes (Baseline tune#2) then run it in the NOS classes on baseline #2. If you decide to run in a NA class put the NA baseline tune on it and give your bottle to the official. Once have have gotten to that point you can simplify (add complexity to merge the 2) then you can upgrade, blue print etc. at that point you may want to look at the sponsors information like Induction Solutions research the material they have provided and plan the next phase... there is not an easy magical solution to the nitrous question as stated above the easy answer is only helping you to pull the pin JMO

gmsmkr wrote:You really need to know what nx plate you have but.....

here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.

N20 jet -136.    Gas jet - 67.    This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best

X2...still do your research... & only high test fuel

Do you have a msd ignition? If so I would control timing automatically when on the nitrous that way when you run the other class you won't have to mess with the distributor, less chance of mistakes when on your running nitrous. Usually the starting point for timing is -3° for every 100 horse but you need to read your plugs.

Ok will do some more reasearchin as said above to get a better idea of how to base line tune nitrous. As for ignition I have none at the moment just starting to gather parts for this build and wanted some better info on the nitrous plan than I had

FalconEh wrote:

gmsmkr wrote:You really need to know what nx plate you have but.....

here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.

N20 jet -136.    Gas jet - 67.    This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best

X2...still do your research... & only high test fuel

It's more than just "high test fuel"!!! Like its already been stated, you need to tune the motor for the nitrous a little differently than n/a if you expect it to live. I ran a very similar combo (12:1 466 with d0ve heads) in a very similar truck. Ran great for a couple of years until I got into a rush and didn't pull enough timing. As the hit size goes up, the fuel octane needs to go up and the plug gets colder. Running a 12:1 motor on 104 and hitting it with a 250hp tune will melt that thing down. I ended up retuning the motor to work best on the spray and made changes for the n/a and kept the fuel at the higher octane level. It was wasted on the n/a passes, but it saved me from swapping fuels or putting a 2nd complete sytem in the truck.

what where you using for fuel?? local race shop sells some vp 110 if i remember correctly

bigben wrote:what where you using for fuel?? local race shop sells some vp 110 if i remember correctly

Using the Holley Big Shot instructions, I was running anywhere from a  250-300 tune depending on the track and competition, so they say 112-114 fuel. I just ran Sonoco 114 all the time. Not needed on the n/a passes, but I felt safer when on the spray.

ok that makes sense. did you notice a diffrence in the nitrous hit if you had run n/a before youre spray pass vs running fresh clean plugs and making a nitrous pass? im assuming it wont make a bit of diffrence but just wondering