nitrous in mud racing
+3
68formalGT
gmsmkr
bigben
7 posters
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Re: nitrous in mud racing
68formalGT wrote:bigben wrote: my truck also has to be set up for a vac class that I can run uncut dot tires up to 54 4 links allowed gutting allowed single carb no nitrous
So really the controller is pointless till I figure out what the motor likes
I wouldn't worry about a controller if you fit into that vacuum class and your set up with a 4 link, I'd put the cuts on for the open class, turn the bottle on and let her eat!!
I could drop to c and run cuts all the time but than limited to 38.5 tire
I'm confused so since I'm only going to shoot 250-300 max tuning it like a n/a motor is fine?
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
You really need to know what nx plate you have but.....
here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.
N20 jet -136. Gas jet - 67. This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best
Edit: flow the plate with the fuel jet you plan to use ( this is how I do it and works for me ) others do it different and I'm sure they will chime in...O also set the gap around .032 or so but no more than .035.
here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.
N20 jet -136. Gas jet - 67. This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best
Edit: flow the plate with the fuel jet you plan to use ( this is how I do it and works for me ) others do it different and I'm sure they will chime in...O also set the gap around .032 or so but no more than .035.
Last edited by gmsmkr on September 12th 2014, 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
gmsmkr- Posts : 1364
Join date : 2014-06-22
Location : alabama
Re: nitrous in mud racing
yellowhorse7 wrote:bigben wrote:But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?[/quote
Never understood this thought. And I'm certain that Steve Johnson and Monte Smith would agree..........
As long as the thing can roll to the line, do a burnout and come up on the brake clean, that's all that should matter. It's a N20 motor, it should be tuned to run on N20, not NA.
Now I should say that that should hold true for med/big tune ups; anything above 350. A smaller kit can be tuned similar to a NA setup since the power level is fairly low. Just my 2 centsrichter69 wrote:Samegmsmkr wrote:yellowhorse7 wrote:bigben wrote:But tune the motor for n/a just pull timing out correct? How are u getting it to hook with a all in one hit?[/quote
Never understood this thought. And I'm certain that Steve Johnson and Monte Smith would agree..........
As long as the thing can roll to the line, do a burnout and come up on the brake clean, that's all that should matter. It's a N20 motor, it should be tuned to run on N20, not NA.
Now I should say that that should hold true for med/big tune ups; anything above 350. A smaller kit can be tuned similar to a NA setup since the power level is fairly low. Just my 2 cents
I have tried to explain this many times to people just starting off with n20 and they look at me like I'm a DA then they melt a piston and say this stuff kills a motor.... when in reality its the people listing to there friends that only read about it and never used it.bigben wrote:68formalGT wrote:bigben wrote: my truck also has to be set up for a vac class that I can run uncut dot tires up to 54 4 links allowed gutting allowed single carb no nitrous
So really the controller is pointless till I figure out what the motor likes
I wouldn't worry about a controller if you fit into that vacuum class and your set up with a 4 link, I'd put the cuts on for the open class, turn the bottle on and let her eat!!
I could drop to c and run cuts all the time but than limited to 38.5 tire
I'm confused so since I'm only going to shoot 250-300 max tuning it like a n/a motor is fine?
As for the upper quotes (x2/x3/x4 AGREED) I will try to simplify it, you already have your motor tuned off the bottle correct? This means you know what it likes and how to set it where it likes NA(baseline tune) If you want to go into the nitrous classes do the reading find out how to set up and baseline the nitrous for what the motor likes (Baseline tune#2) then run it in the NOS classes on baseline #2. If you decide to run in a NA class put the NA baseline tune on it and give your bottle to the official. Once have have gotten to that point you can simplify (add complexity to merge the 2) then you can upgrade, blue print etc. at that point you may want to look at the sponsors information like Induction Solutions research the material they have provided and plan the next phase... there is not an easy magical solution to the nitrous question as stated above the easy answer is only helping you to pull the pin JMO
FalconEh- Posts : 1448
Join date : 2014-08-21
Location : on the blacktop or in the mountains ????
Re: nitrous in mud racing
gmsmkr wrote:You really need to know what nx plate you have but.....
here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.
N20 jet -136. Gas jet - 67. This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best
X2...still do your research... & only high test fuel
FalconEh- Posts : 1448
Join date : 2014-08-21
Location : on the blacktop or in the mountains ????
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Do you have a msd ignition? If so I would control timing automatically when on the nitrous that way when you run the other class you won't have to mess with the distributor, less chance of mistakes when on your running nitrous. Usually the starting point for timing is -3° for every 100 horse but you need to read your plugs.
68formalGT- Posts : 862
Join date : 2012-02-13
Location : Pueblo West, Colorado
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Ok will do some more reasearchin as said above to get a better idea of how to base line tune nitrous. As for ignition I have none at the moment just starting to gather parts for this build and wanted some better info on the nitrous plan than I had
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
FalconEh wrote:gmsmkr wrote:You really need to know what nx plate you have but.....
here is a base line tune for a mainline kit with a 250 shot with 10 ffp Take 8° of timing out run a 3step colder plug.
N20 jet -136. Gas jet - 67. This is a close start if you don't get detonation then you can move stuff around Like timing and fuel flow to get more on the edge where it will run best
X2...still do your research... & only high test fuel
It's more than just "high test fuel"!!! Like its already been stated, you need to tune the motor for the nitrous a little differently than n/a if you expect it to live. I ran a very similar combo (12:1 466 with d0ve heads) in a very similar truck. Ran great for a couple of years until I got into a rush and didn't pull enough timing. As the hit size goes up, the fuel octane needs to go up and the plug gets colder. Running a 12:1 motor on 104 and hitting it with a 250hp tune will melt that thing down. I ended up retuning the motor to work best on the spray and made changes for the n/a and kept the fuel at the higher octane level. It was wasted on the n/a passes, but it saved me from swapping fuels or putting a 2nd complete sytem in the truck.
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
what where you using for fuel?? local race shop sells some vp 110 if i remember correctly
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
bigben wrote:what where you using for fuel?? local race shop sells some vp 110 if i remember correctly
Using the Holley Big Shot instructions, I was running anywhere from a 250-300 tune depending on the track and competition, so they say 112-114 fuel. I just ran Sonoco 114 all the time. Not needed on the n/a passes, but I felt safer when on the spray.
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
ok that makes sense. did you notice a diffrence in the nitrous hit if you had run n/a before youre spray pass vs running fresh clean plugs and making a nitrous pass? im assuming it wont make a bit of diffrence but just wondering
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
no real difference
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
good because i wont have time between classes to switch out fresh plugs
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Yeah, it's a pain. Especially in the mud. Like I said earlier, I re-tuned the motor more for the nitrous tune as far as fuel and plugs go, then compromised with the best I could get in timing to make power n/a. It's not ideal but its the only realy way to run multiple classes like we do with the limited time.
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
im thinking thats the way to go . im mainly building it this way because of some all iron non stroked motors apparently cant hang in open class lol so hopefully a lil iron 466 and some spray will change that
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Karl, you weren't using a start and step(msd 8987) or some other timing module?
68formalGT- Posts : 862
Join date : 2012-02-13
Location : Pueblo West, Colorado
Re: nitrous in mud racing
68formalGT wrote:Karl, you weren't using a start and step(msd 8987) or some other timing module?
I use the old MSD Start retard with my old early 7al-2 since it's basically a repackeged original 7al. I think the replacement is the MSD 8987.
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
havent had any issues with that im assuming??
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
The reason for a plug change is for your tuning so you will know if its good or going south on you. Once you get it where you want you won't have to change them as often.
gmsmkr- Posts : 1364
Join date : 2014-06-22
Location : alabama
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Ok good I was sort of thinking that but wanted to be sure. I know I gotta read plugs while I try and tune
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
bigben wrote:havent had any issues with that im assuming??
Nope works like a champ. Over the winter I plan to make some changes though. Looking to go air shifter and 2 step, so the nitrous side will have to be re-done some since cuttently it's wired to a wot switch.
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Ok cool. What the reason for the two step adding more spray?
bigben- Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-09-10
Age : 31
Location : austin ,mn
Re: nitrous in mud racing
So I can set the launch rpm, hold the pedal to the floor and let it eat. There will be a relay wired in so the nitrous doesn't start until after I launch
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Did you T off the transbrake power to a relay to turn power off to the carb micro switch when on the brake?kjett wrote:So I can set the launch rpm, hold the pedal to the floor and let it eat. There will be a relay wired in so the nitrous doesn't start until after I launch
68formalGT- Posts : 862
Join date : 2012-02-13
Location : Pueblo West, Colorado
Re: nitrous in mud racing
Haven't done it yet. That's the plan for this winter when i also change the shifter to a cheetah air setup.
kjett- Posts : 1169
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : Virginia
Re: nitrous in mud racing
How hard do you think it's going to hit when you release both the brake and the extra horsepower from the nitrous all at once?
68formalGT- Posts : 862
Join date : 2012-02-13
Location : Pueblo West, Colorado
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