Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

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Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  72mav on November 3rd 2014, 1:30 pm

H Guys,
Some years ago Weiand made a adapter that replaced the top half on their old tunnelram manifolds. This allowed a Hilborn or Enderle injector hat to be installed on the tunnel ram. I know I could fab one. Just had to ask. Randy Malik mentioned it quite awhile back. Anyone have a pic or a part number?
Thanks.
Al
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  dfree383 on November 3rd 2014, 2:17 pm

Weiand made a 2 piece top
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  cool40 on November 3rd 2014, 7:09 pm

I have one on my old long runner intake thats cast aluminum. It doesn't have any numbers on it though. I made one for the newer style im running now because the older one wont fit.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  72mav on November 3rd 2014, 7:56 pm

Lee,
All your stuff is A460, correct? The intake I need is for the SCJ. Reason, I ask is I already have a intake. Good Vibrations makes a converted blue thunder for the SCJs. I might have a lead tomorrow on the old Weiand tunnel ram adapter.
Still looking though.
Thanks guys.
Al
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  dfree383 on November 3rd 2014, 8:00 pm

Why would you need a BT Intake? Weiand makes a 2 piece top that the upper piece can be left off and adapted to the Enderly part. I'll get some pics when I get home.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  72mav on November 3rd 2014, 8:10 pm

Yeah Dave, I was stating what is available currently on the BT manifold. I know a guy at Crower that might be able to help with one of the Weiand adapters, but he is off today.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  cool40 on November 3rd 2014, 9:02 pm

Would be easy to fab up an adapter plate to fit that intake with a hat. Suspect
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  STR-LGL-70 on November 4th 2014, 7:15 am

Check w/ Engine Systems in Tucker Ga. Mine has ES cast into the front of it, I think maybe they had some made for them?
Sheldon G.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  STR-LGL-70 on November 4th 2014, 7:20 am

Weiand intake & Enderle hat
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  dfree383 on November 4th 2014, 10:22 am





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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  Paul Kane on November 4th 2014, 10:46 am

72mav wrote:H Guys,
Some years ago Weiand made a adapter that replaced the top half on their old tunnelram manifolds. This allowed a Hilborn or Enderle  injector hat to be installed on the tunnel ram. I know I could fab one. Just had to ask. Randy Malik mentioned it quite awhile back. Anyone have a pic or a part number?
Thanks.
Al
Wow, that Weiand top plate is from a long time ago. I've seen them, they're cool from a nostalgia standpoint.  You might find one but you could probably fab up a plate a lot sooner.  Vintage stuff like this is all over the Pomona swap meet, and often for pretty cheap.
_____________________________

Incidentally, Offenhauser also made a blower top for their tunnel ram, very very few were made:



With the Offy's spring-loaded blast plate, it is obviously intended for street only.  I looked into making a run of these awhile back. It took awhile for the guys at Phaeton to even find someone who remembered they ever made them, and then to locate the pattern for the upper haha, etc.  I was told they'd do a minimum run of 25 pieces if I wanted.  In the case of the Offenhauser, there are some disadvantages (particularly for NA application) but since doing some flow bench testing with Charlie a few years back I've come up with some very noteworthy modifications that I feel greatly transform the capabilities of the Offy T/R for the better.   Maybe next time I'm in Owensboro I'll ship one of those modded Offys out (with carb upper plenum) and Charlie and I could test the changes I've come up with.


Last edited by Paul Kane on November 4th 2014, 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  Paul Kane on November 4th 2014, 10:47 am

dfree383 wrote:
I have one of these Weiand 3-piece intakes as well. Not what the OP is talking about but these are really cool just the same. If you ever make more of those phenolic spacers please let me know.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  72mav on November 4th 2014, 10:22 pm

Thanks Paul.
I figured someone would come through. Would be intersting what the Offy tr would flow with the mods you mentioned. Personally I dont know what each flows, but the offy looks like a better piece with the shorter runners compared to the Weiand piece.
Thanks again.
Al
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  Paul Kane on November 5th 2014, 11:41 am

72mav wrote:Would be intersting what the Offy tr would flow with the mods you mentioned. Personally I dont know what each flows, but the offy looks like a better piece with the shorter runners compared to the Weiand piece.
Thanks again.
Al
I pulled the flow sheets.  We established a baseline with a CJ head (no intake attached), then tested each of the two intakes. One was the as-cast Offy which has SCJ ports as cast, the other was a ported (no welding) Weiand, ported to SCJ runner size (so as to "match" the Offy's runner size).  Being that these are tunnel ram intake manifolds, the flow analysis was done at 0.500", 0.600", 0.700", 0.800", and 0.900" valve lifts.  There were various "sidebar" tests we did along the way, but I'll generalize the results of only what we initially set out to evaluate.

As-Cast Offy T/R Base



SCJ-Ported Weiand T/R Base



In short, the SCJ-ported Weiand recorded airlfow numbers that were 2-3% higher than the as-cast SCJ Offy.  That is to say, the CJ-ported Weiand produced flow numbers 3% better than the as-cast Offy at 0.500" lift, and by the time the valve was at 0.900" lift it was just 2% better.

You commented on the Offy's "short runners." That external appearance of Offy tunnel ram is deceiving, because the individual runners extend up into the upper plenum (where they are finally grouped together in their two groups of four runners). So the Offy's runners are longer than they appear from the outside. I mention this because my modification includes eliminating the grouped runners from the upper plenum (this mod increases plenum volume for today's strokers), and I also plunge down a bit into the runners in the tunnel ram's base, then lay back the runner floors which really opens up the individual entries. This does a number of things:

The narrow, necked-down "D" shape of the runner entries in the plenum are both shortened and enlarged, which 1) improves breathing and 2) reduces reverse taper.  Also, the individual runner lengths are shortened by about 1.25" which 3) sets up runner length for the 3rd harmonic with a CJ head.

I have pictures of the mods, but I've hesitated from posting any final, conclusive results since I've been wanting to do some flow testing for comparison purposes and also dyno an engine combo where I can back-to-back test the as-cast Offy to the modified Offy.

Lastly, I don't feel that either of these intakes is necessarily "better" than the other; it's more a matter of which intake best suits a given build.  Plus there are other elaborate mods being done such as welding, floor filling, etc, which can affect final results.  Ultimately, it's really a matter of setting up an intake manifold for a specific engine combination.  But given the vintage of the Offy tunnel ram, I am optimistic that the mods I've come up with will show a noteworthy improvement to the old design.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  Lem Evans on November 5th 2014, 11:49 am

Would the flow #s have been the same if the restroom door had been closed? Smile

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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  dfree383 on November 5th 2014, 12:57 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Would the flow #s have been the same if the restroom door had been closed? Smile

was the smoke test performed?
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  Paul Kane on November 5th 2014, 1:55 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Would the flow #s have been the same if the restroom door had been closed? Smile
The flow numbers are indeed affected with the door left open to the bathroom, but we turned the bathroom's exhaust fan on and that cancels out the difference.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  Paul Kane on November 5th 2014, 1:57 pm

dfree383 wrote:was the smoke test performed?
As a matter of speaking, yes, it was: We later turned off the bathroom fan and allowed the stench (from the last person using the bathroom) to pass through the intake runners and flow bench instead of the bathroom's exhaust fan ducting.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  maverick on November 5th 2014, 6:51 pm

So from this info, may we conclude that when compared to the Offy, the Weiand flow stinks?
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  bbf-falcon on November 5th 2014, 8:45 pm

Seems this thread has turned too shit. Razz Good info Paul. Very Happy

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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  maverick on November 5th 2014, 8:51 pm

Yep. Some guys really make an effort to provide real answers on this board. Hats off to all those guys. Cool
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  72mav on November 8th 2014, 11:04 am

maverick wrote:Yep.  Some guys really make an effort to provide real answers on this board.  Hats off to all those guys.  Cool

X2 on that Paul,
Please disregard the smart azz coments......
Thanks abunch for the feedback . Greatly appreciated.
Regards.
Al
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  dfree383 on November 8th 2014, 12:02 pm

maverick wrote:Yep.  Some guys really make an effort to provide real answers on this board.  Hats off to all those guys.  Cool
inside joke.....
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  STR-LGL-70 on November 8th 2014, 4:06 pm

72mav wrote:H Guys,
Some years ago Weiand made a adapter that replaced the top half on their old tunnelram manifolds. This allowed a Hilborn or Enderle  injector hat to be installed on the tunnel ram. I know I could fab one. Just had to ask. Randy Malik mentioned it quite awhile back. Anyone have a pic or a part number?
Thanks.
Al

I could text you a picture of mine; it measures 2.375" height from the tallest point where the hat attaches. My intake is a Weiand 3 piece PN 5993 base with PN 1930 center section that accepts the various type carb adaptors or in this case the hat adaptor.
Sheldon G.
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Re: Weiand/Enderle injecter hat adapter

Post  72mav on November 8th 2014, 7:57 pm

Thank you Sheldon. You have a PM.
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