Hard start/Run issues

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Hard start/Run issues

Post  ROAD RAGE on January 25th 2015, 8:20 pm

Will not fire, unless I pull the coil wire part way out (at least 1''past end of coil)???
spark seams ok,(at coil) its blue at the coil wire and it jump's easy 1.5'' out.....  but at the plug its on the light/yellow /white side. Plugs are starting to look shootie,,,, when it does start, I have to play with the coil wire to keep it running, too far out of course it dies, and pluged all the way in, it also dies,, Coil input is 13.4 volt and 11.8 cranking.. Timing locked out at 36deg,.....Tried 3 diff coil's 2-msd blaster 2's and 1 Accel.... Dist is a MSD-8350. have also tried a diff dist,  a #msd-8580 w/box...(6-AL)
I'm lost at this point......


Last edited by ROAD RAGE on January 26th 2015, 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  FalconEh on January 25th 2015, 8:47 pm

ROAD RAGE wrote:Will not fire, unless I pull the coil wire part way out (at least 1''past end of coil)???
spark seams ok,(at coil) its blue at the coil wire and it jump's easy 1.5'' out.....  but at the plug its on the light/yellow /white side. Plugs are starting to look shootie,,,, when it does start, I have to play with the coil wire to keep it running, too far out of course it dies, and pluged all the way in, it also dies,, Coil input is 13.4 volt and 11.8 cranking.. Timing locked out at 36deg,.....Tried 3 diff coil's 2-msd blaster 2's and 1 Accel.... Dist is a MSD-8350. have also tried a diff dist,  a #msd-8580 w/box...
I'm lost at this point......

Be careful playing with the coil wire my hair used to be straight lol afro afro You should not have to play with the coil wire, and it sounds like you can rule out the coil... have you checked the cap for cracks and does it have a vent hole?, rotor? Firing order?....can you post pics of the cap and plugs, it sounds like you have a firing order or crossfire condition...if the problem IS ignition related.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  ROAD RAGE on January 25th 2015, 9:04 pm

Dist is like new,
Cap is dry & clean, checked the wiring order and all's good. (fordracing 8.5 wires)
Timing is correct. This is a new one on me,, I hope it's something simple I'm just missing......
Sometimes I can get a sweet spot with the coil wire and it levels out than dies when I plug it back in the coil.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  res0rli9 on January 25th 2015, 10:28 pm

try a different coil wire Question

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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  ROAD RAGE on January 26th 2015, 10:31 am

[quote="res0rli9"]try a different coil wire Question[/quote]


Coil wire is 11.5'' long @.917ohm, when it fires, depending on the length of the ark at coil or dist, it smooths out & runs fine. but when the ark is shorten it quits firing, Will only start/fire if I long ark the coil wire, Any ideas?????????? What the he*# am I missing???????

BTW,,I ran a separate hot from batt to coil +,, and a ground,, batt to dist housing.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  DanH on January 26th 2015, 1:06 pm

"W/Box"- what box.? check from the dist.cal/rotor plus plug wires or try other parts.
plugs soot, equals rich. plus a new set of them or clean the current ones.

why it start with the coil wire out a short distance, the coil output votage is at max voltage.

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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  ROAD RAGE on January 26th 2015, 4:14 pm

I guess that's why I'm lost, Plugs take the power to ground, OK, why does making ark longer give it the ability to fire plugs??? when the short ark causes it to start stumbling, and die??? Losing the power to the plug's, That is why the plugs are looking rich, (no power),
thank's for the input!!! I'm going to change the plugs. and give it a try...................
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  69F100 on January 26th 2015, 10:11 pm

Change the coil I had one on my 69 F100 a few years back give me a problem I tried plugs, wires ,  cap and rotor. I had the same results pull the coil wire out some and it would run so I bought a coil for it and fixed my problem. If you have another coil laying around try it and see what happens. Only thing I figured was when the wire was all the way in it was grounding out in the coil tower.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  FalconEh on January 26th 2015, 10:27 pm

What is the history of the motor, did you have it running good and develop the condition, did you just install it, did it sit for a period of time, if you had it running did you change anything ...if so what did you change. Is the rotation correct.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  ROAD RAGE on January 27th 2015, 12:48 am

tried two other coils same results, motor is just broke-in, everything is new, had a issue a few years back with a 92 ford 1-ton welding truck, would not start unless you pulled the coil wire out and let it long ark than it would fire right up, plug the wire back in & it ran just fine.. This motor has a lot of cold starts in the shop, , if its firing hard at the coil, it has to be getting ground at the plug, I've got a new set of ar135's ordered to replace the ar134's, I'll get back to ya when I get'm in,,
Thanks.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  FalconEh on January 27th 2015, 10:04 pm

ROAD RAGE wrote:
res0rli9 wrote:try a different coil wire Question


Coil wire is 11.5'' long @.917ohm, when it fires, depending on the length of the ark at coil or dist, it smooths out & runs fine. but when the ark is shorten it quits firing, Will only start/fire if I long ark the coil wire, Any ideas?????????? What the he*# am I missing???????

BTW,,I ran a separate hot from batt to coil +,, and a ground,, batt to dist housing.


Here is a link to the wiring diagram http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/Ready-to-Run/E-Curve/8350_-_Ford_351C-460_Ready-To-Run_Pro-Billet_Distributor.aspx you can click on the tab that says instructions if you do not have them

You say that you ran a ground to the dist housing, why not run a ground strap to the block?. If you have to reduce the spark to smooth it out it is likely experiencing a cross-fire condition (or a faulty cap, wrong rotation, timing, dist 180* out), which can also cause the rich condition as the cyl's are not firing every time, pull the dipstick and see if the oil smells like fuel, you may be washing them down with fuel.
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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  DanH on January 28th 2015, 8:19 am

FalconEh wrote:
ROAD RAGE wrote:
res0rli9 wrote:try a different coil wire Question


Coil wire is 11.5'' long @.917ohm, when it fires, depending on the length of the ark at coil or dist, it smooths out & runs fine. but when the ark is shorten it quits firing, Will only start/fire if I long ark the coil wire, Any ideas?????????? What the he*# am I missing???????

BTW,,I ran a separate hot from batt to coil +,, and a ground,, batt to dist housing.

Here is a link to the wiring diagram http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Distributors/Ford/Ready-to-Run/E-Curve/8350_-_Ford_351C-460_Ready-To-Run_Pro-Billet_Distributor.aspx you can click on the tab that says instructions if you do not have them

You say that you ran a ground to the dist housing, why not run a ground strap to the block?. If you have to reduce the spark to smooth it out it is likely experiencing a cross-fire condition (or a faulty cap, wrong rotation, timing, dist 180* out), which can also cause the rich condition as the cyl's are not firing every time, pull the dipstick and see if the oil smells like fuel, you may be washing them down with fuel.

Not a reduce spark, he said a larger distance from the coil/cap.

he was also given the reason, which he failed to understand the way.

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Re: Hard start/Run issues

Post  ROAD RAGE on January 28th 2015, 9:44 am

ground #1, is batt to block...
ground #2, is back of head to firewall.....
The only reason for the ground #3 at the dist, (was for trouble shooting only), Same as the hot wire, (batt to the coil)..
Plugs came in last night, I'll get them this AM,,,,
Thanks Again ..................
BTW, thanks for the link. It's always good to refresh/jog the old brain...........

Thanks Dan,
And yes, I did understand what you said. Anyway, "FIXED"  The person who installed the plugs I assume,, did not check the gap. All was at .018,,,,, When "I" pull the one plug to check the color & spark I missed looking closer & checking the gap. So I'm guessing the tight gap and cold start's (choke)
all played a part.. Thanks Guy's, you made me think a little harder. set new plugs .035.
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