Short Deck Block

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Short Deck Block

Post  79Puller on February 7th 2015, 10:48 am

Seen a post on here awhile back about a company making a 460 block with a 9.2 or9.5 deck height. Cannot find this post but wondering if any of you guys know of such or who if anyone is making the block. I thought it was seen at one of the shows or something. Thanks

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  Wheelie58 on February 7th 2015, 12:13 pm

Eliminator has 9.8" iron blocks on a custom order basis.
Additional machine work is required after it is delivered to a dealer.
Engine Systems just completed one for a customer.
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  rmcomprandy on February 7th 2015, 12:20 pm

Wheelie58 wrote:Eliminator has 9.8" iron blocks on a custom order basis.
Additional machine work is required after it is delivered to a dealer.
Engine Systems just completed one for a customer.
Keith
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Keith, do you know what bell-housing pattern is on those blocks...?

The no longer available Ford Racing M-6010-A500 block comes with a 9.000" deck and has the special Pro Stock E460 head bolt pattern with Cleveland size mains.
The recent NHRA FORD "Pro Stock" compacted graphite block also had 9.125" Short decks with NO head bolt pattern and used MOPAR 2.500" mains.

EDIT: The recent NHRA FORD blocks had part numbers M-6010-JC50 and M-6010-JC51.


Last edited by rmcomprandy on February 7th 2015, 12:30 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  Wheelie58 on February 7th 2015, 12:25 pm

Randy,
It has the normal BBF pattern, but about 1/2 of the top hole is milled away.
Ted drilled a new one. I think this one was for a can or Ultrabell that allowed that.
Keith
PS
I think this one also had the Cleveland main option
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  rmcomprandy on February 7th 2015, 12:42 pm

Wheelie58 wrote:Randy,
It has the normal BBF pattern, but about 1/2 of the top hole is milled away.
Ted drilled a new one. I think this one was for a can or Ultrabell that allowed that.
Keith
PS
I think this one also had the Cleveland main option

A 9.800" deck height would mill ALMOST all the top 429/460 bell-housing bolt hole away leaving just the bottom part of the thread witness... Laughing The MEL bell-housing bolt hole would still be there though.

I am not sure but, I think the NHRA FORD blocks have a GM belhousing and the A500 blocks of yesteryears had a Cleveland bell-housing pattern.

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  Wheelie58 on February 7th 2015, 12:55 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
Wheelie58 wrote:Randy,
It has the normal BBF pattern, but about 1/2 of the top hole is milled away.
Ted drilled a new one. I think this one was for a can or Ultrabell that allowed that.
Keith
PS
I think this one also had the Cleveland main option

A 9.800" deck height would mill ALMOST all the top 429/460 bell-housing bolt hole away leaving just the bottom part of the thread witness... Laughing The MEL bell-housing bolt hole would still be there though.

I am not sure but, I think the NHRA FORD blocks have a GM belhousing and the A500 blocks of yesteryears had a Cleveland bell-housing pattern.

Randy...
You know that I am old...I hadn't seen it in a few weeks.
That's why I said about half. How about less than half? :-)
Yeah the Lincoln bolt was still good.
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  Paul Kane on February 7th 2015, 9:17 pm

Another feature that will be lost with the short deck is the OEM timing cover's bolt hole located at the 1 o'clock position (as viewed while facing the front of the cylinder block).

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  DanH on February 8th 2015, 7:40 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
Wheelie58 wrote:Randy,
It has the normal BBF pattern, but about 1/2 of the top hole is milled away.
Ted drilled a new one. I think this one was for a can or Ultrabell that allowed that.
Keith
PS
I think this one also had the Cleveland main option

A 9.800" deck height would mill ALMOST all the top 429/460 bell-housing bolt hole away leaving just the bottom part of the thread witness... Laughing The MEL bell-housing bolt hole would still be there though.

I am not sure but, I think the NHRA FORD blocks have a GM belhousing and the A500 blocks of yesteryears had a Cleveland bell-housing pattern.
there is no special Cleveland bell housing pattern. Cleveland is the same as all 6 bolt SBF 289/302 & 351W's

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  rmcomprandy on February 8th 2015, 1:54 pm

DanH wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
Wheelie58 wrote:Randy,
It has the normal BBF pattern, but about 1/2 of the top hole is milled away.
Ted drilled a new one. I think this one was for a can or Ultrabell that allowed that.
Keith
PS
I think this one also had the Cleveland main option

A 9.800" deck height would mill ALMOST all the top 429/460 bell-housing bolt hole away leaving just the bottom part of the thread witness... Laughing The MEL bell-housing bolt hole would still be there though.

I am not sure but, I think the NHRA FORD blocks have a GM belhousing and the A500 blocks of yesteryears had a Cleveland bell-housing pattern.

there is no special Cleveland bell housing pattern. Cleveland is the same as all 6 bolt SBF 289/302 & 351W's

Sounds like you are simply being a "wise ass" here with an un-warented correction to an otherwise true statement as I never referred to the Cleveland bell-housing pattern as being SPECIAL or distinct in any way.
I would hope you are simply trying to add more information which just wasn't given.

OK ... SO, because the Cleveland pattern is the same as other 6 bolt small blocks, you are trying to say that this pattern therefore cannot be referred to as a Cleveland pattern...?  

You can NOT say it is a small block pattern because there are small blocks which have a different 5 bolt bell-housing pattern and the Y-block is also considered to be a small block by many.
Without giving a gigantic, multi-word explanation of that bell-housing pattern .... how would you correctly refer to it; in short on a BIG BLOCK forum ...?

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  whitefield on February 8th 2015, 5:01 pm

Ok,not trying to start a fight but , 351 clevland is a small block and by simply stating SBF bolt patern would cover it for the most part

What if it were state it has a big block pattern , but that would be un true to because the FE engines are considered big blocks and carrier a different bolt patern than the 385 series engine and the 335 carries the same bolt pattern as the 385 . so then people get confused about the 351C being a big block because of the 351M/400 which share the same heads but different intake . The bellhousing bolt pattern which is a 385 series engine and they are a 335 series intermediate block. So many different ones that ford produced easy to miss read and or take the wrong way .

Bell housing bolt patterns
Windsor series engines after 1965 have the Same bolt pattern as the 351C , 240 cid inline 6 and 300 in line 6
FE series engine have the same bolt pattern
335 and 385 have the same bolt pattern
260 and 289 pre 65 have 5 bolt bellhousing
Not sure on the y block and flat head those were way before my time.

This list above is based on my personal experience and not Internet or book.
Also when dealing with cars there are always some one off or experimental stuff floating around that I haven't seen or delt with.


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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  rmcomprandy on February 8th 2015, 6:52 pm

whitefield wrote:Ok,not trying to start a fight but , 351 clevland is a small block and by simply stating SBF bolt patern would cover it for the most part

What if it were state it has a big block pattern , but that would be un true to because the FE engines are considered big blocks and carrier a different bolt patern than the 385 series engine and the  335  carries the same bolt pattern as the 385 . so then people get confused about the 351C being a big block because of the 351M/400 which share the same heads but different  intake . The  bellhousing  bolt pattern which is a 385 series engine and they are a 335 series intermediate block. So many different ones that ford produced easy to miss read and or take the wrong way .

Bell housing bolt patterns
Windsor series engines after 1965 have the Same bolt pattern as the 351C , 240 cid inline 6 and 300 in line 6
FE series engine have the same bolt pattern
335 and 385 have the same bolt pattern
260 and 289 pre 65 have 5 bolt bellhousing
Not sure on the y block and flat head those were way before my time.

This list above is based on my personal experience and not Internet or book.
Also when dealing with cars there are always some one off or experimental stuff floating around that I haven't seen or delt with.

That is the whole point ...  by not mentioning anything else other than a Cleveland bell-housing there is a whole lot of potential confusion thwarted as to what THIS block has.
The same as? ... presupposing "what if" other uses? ... just doesn't matter in this instance.

You forgot a few: again, it simply doesn't matter if they are the same or different.  When it comes to THIS particular NON mass production block information, who is confused...? A Cleveland bell-housing pattern is a definite pattern, whether or not it is the same as something else is totally immaterial here, which can be easily understood because there is not more than one pattern to differentiate being used for a Cleveland.

144, 170, 200, 250 inch sixes, the 221 V8, 2.8L, 2.9L, 3.0L, 3.8L, 4.0L V6's and all the MercuryEdselLincoln blocks are all in there somewhere, also. Some of those are the same so, where do you stop...? It is a matter of NOT supplying to much information to describe the situation. Whether these or any other blocks are the same or different is immaterial. THAT information would be for another thread altogether; probably a different forum unless a specific question was asked on here.

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  IDT-572 on February 8th 2015, 10:23 pm

You know, Randy when you said Cleveland pattern, I immediately knew what pattern you were speaking of and never gave it a second thought.

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  whitefield on February 8th 2015, 11:00 pm

IDT-572 wrote:You know, Randy when you said Cleveland pattern, I immediately knew what pattern you were speaking of and never gave it a second thought.

Rolling Eyes

Some times i wish ford did only have one though.............. Cool

Most would not , but some do and some do and some don't ! Wink
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  DanH on February 9th 2015, 2:04 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
DanH wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
Wheelie58 wrote:Randy,
It has the normal BBF pattern, but about 1/2 of the top hole is milled away.
Ted drilled a new one. I think this one was for a can or Ultrabell that allowed that.
Keith
PS
I think this one also had the Cleveland main option

A 9.800" deck height would mill ALMOST all the top 429/460 bell-housing bolt hole away leaving just the bottom part of the thread witness... Laughing The MEL bell-housing bolt hole would still be there though.

I am not sure but, I think the NHRA FORD blocks have a GM belhousing and the A500 blocks of yesteryears had a Cleveland bell-housing pattern.

there is no special Cleveland bell housing pattern. Cleveland is the same as all 6 bolt SBF 289/302 & 351W's

Sounds like you are simply being a "wise ass" here with an un-warented correction to an otherwise true statement as I never referred to the Cleveland bell-housing pattern as being SPECIAL or distinct in any way.
I would hope you are simply trying to add more information which just wasn't given.

OK ... SO, because the Cleveland pattern is the same as other 6 bolt small blocks, you are trying to say that this pattern therefore cannot be referred to as a Cleveland pattern...?  

You can NOT say it is a small block pattern because there are small blocks which have a different 5 bolt bell-housing pattern and the Y-block is also considered to be a small block by many.
Without giving a gigantic, multi-word explanation of that bell-housing pattern .... how would you correctly refer to it; in short on a BIG BLOCK forum ...?

now I'll take being a smart ass. Added info was given
By the way you forgot the I6 300 bell.
one guess why I said 6 bolt. Was the reason the be clear that not all the SBF 221 thru 351W are not the same..

how I would have said it----- bolt pattern the same as the later sbf/351W & C.. Yes that is multi word.
now you post the info in One Word
. Most don't know/hands on about Clevelands, but have a good idea what the late sbf is, such as the
302/351W.


Does the big block 385 have a Boss429 bell bolt patter? I'd say the Boss429 has the common 385 pattern

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  the Coug on February 9th 2015, 2:54 am

Just for Chits and Giggles the 351m / 400s did not all have big block bolt patterns, they made some with small block 6 bolt patterns, granted they are few and far between but they are out there...I have owned 1 but it is long gone... Shocked  most of they general public does not know that......also they did make a few 4v 400s, and most people don't know they made a 302 cleveland, granted it was for Aussie but they did make it...
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  whitefield on February 9th 2015, 7:52 am

the Coug wrote:Just for Chits and Giggles the 351m / 400s did not all have big block bolt patterns, they made some with small block 6 bolt patterns, granted they are few and far between but they are out there...I have owned 1 but it is long gone... Shocked  most of they general public does not know that......also they did make a few 4v 400s, and most people don't know they made a 302 cleveland, granted it was for Aussie but they did make it...


You are correct and I did think of that after I posted and was going to post some pics of one, but decided against it.

Also ford made a 255 v8 in 1980 . I owned it in a 2 door Cool box top fairmont my wife's uncle bought new.
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  DanH on February 9th 2015, 1:06 pm

whitefield wrote:
the Coug wrote:Just for Chits and Giggles the 351m / 400s did not all have big block bolt patterns, they made some with small block 6 bolt patterns, granted they are few and far between but they are out there...I have owned 1 but it is long gone... Shocked  most of they general public does not know that......also they did make a few 4v 400s, and most people don't know they made a 302 cleveland, granted it was for Aussie but they did make it...


You are correct and I did think of that after I posted and was going to post some pics of one, but decided against it.

Also ford made a 255 v8 in 1980 . I owned it in a 2 door Cool  box top fairmont my wife's uncle bought new.
.
forgot about the 255, the crankshaft used in those engine saved Ford a lot of cast iron. not much to them.

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  res0rli9 on February 9th 2015, 1:28 pm

I thought this was about a ( Short Deck Block ) not bolt hole's scratch

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  rmcomprandy on February 9th 2015, 1:35 pm

res0rli9 wrote:I thought this was about a ( Short Deck Block ) not bolt hole's scratch

EXACTLY ...

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  the Coug on February 9th 2015, 2:26 pm

I don't know but maybe I can find a link to paste if you can't read it....
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  cletus66 on February 9th 2015, 3:17 pm

This thread is full of funny !! Laughing
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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  obxboarder on February 9th 2015, 6:47 pm

I have one them 400 blocks with the small bell

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Re: Short Deck Block

Post  DanH on February 10th 2015, 6:41 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
res0rli9 wrote:I thought this was about a ( Short Deck Block ) not bolt hole's scratch

EXACTLY ...
.

agree that its about short deck blocks which includes what can be bolted to them.

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