AFR NEW HEADS

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 5th 2015, 12:08 pm

I am a Ford guy too - that doesn't mean I have to crap on every other brand does it?

Coyote is cool and a decent Ford engine - there just isn't a fast one on the streets around here - certainly none that go 190+ mph in the quarter on small tires.

I prefer not to see Ford's with LS swaps. But it is becoming very commonplace these days.

Any fast street driven car is awesome!!!
Mid 7 second ones are even more unbelievable.


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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 5th 2015, 12:32 pm

Gary Blair wrote:Nothing wrong with solid FT cams. I like them a bunch. A good valve job and short turn work can be very rewarding on just about any head.

There is a nice pump gas 521 with early A-429's around hear with an Ultradyne SFT, 271/279 @ .050, 110, .642 gross. 10-1, Victor with a Holley 1250. 345 CFM @ .600 lift on the intake

696 HP @ 6000

688 ft lbs @ 4800

Sometimes simple can be a lot of fun.




The 707 hp engine's cam is but 256*/266*. The owner's request was for a street only engine that would not be operated above 6,000 rpm, hence the small cam.

Some thing like 265*/275* would certainly put a lot more meat on the table and make a nice street/strip combo.

Agreed, things don't have to be fancy to be fun.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 5th 2015, 12:36 pm

Just because someone drives a race car on the street does not make it a street car.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 5th 2015, 1:23 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Just because someone drives a race car on the street does not make it a street car.

True, but this one does many street cruise events. Not just 2 minutes of idling around. This one is a street car with a well developed
engine combination. With turbos the solid roller doesn't have to be all that big. I believe this LSX had 260 ish @0.050" and .748" lift.

This one IS a street car with race car performance.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 5th 2015, 1:32 pm

68galaxie wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Just because someone drives a race car on the street does not make it a street car.

True, but this one does many street cruise events. Not just 2 minutes of idling around. This one is a street car with a well developed
engine combination. With turbos the solid roller doesn't have to be all that big. I believe this LSX had 260 ish @0.050" and .748" lift.

This one IS a street car with race car performance.

If a car has enough safety equipment to LEGALY go down a race track in the 7s and 8s it's a race car.

I have friend that has a Maverick that he used to race in NMCA Hot Street. It does not have wheelie bars, does have 10.5" tires, etc. per the rules but, it darn sure is a race car.

He could add a turbo and install a smaller cam and it'd still be a race car.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 5th 2015, 1:50 pm

So any car with drag race type safety equipment is no longer a street car?
Who's definition is that?

A car that is street legal, and drives hundreds of street miles on a cruise night IS a street car - regardless of what is or isn't under the hood - Ford or not.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  SLord82 on May 5th 2015, 1:57 pm

dfree383 wrote:
68galaxie wrote:Lets get back on track here.
I have a BBF and love them!  
I didn't like the laughing at an LS engine posting.
Not sure many street driven BBF could handle this LS street driven car. That is all I was saying.

Why do Ford guys have to belittle LS engines? I certainly like them better than the Ford Mod motors.

Anyhow, I like my BBF.


Last I checked the LS engine is produced by Government Motors....... We are Ford guys...... We don't like GM's as a rule when it's between domestic makes.... And we especially don't like GM engines being swapped into Ford cars.....Thats F'n wrong !

I'm a ford guy but a car guy first. Who cares who builds the engine when it's a good design?

Besides you can at least argue the LS is basically a modern interpretation of the SBF

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  dfree383 on May 5th 2015, 1:59 pm

Cages, window nets, helmets, Fire suits, 6 point harness with submarine belts, battery shutoff switches, fire suppression systems, massive air to water intercoolers that take up half the car interior, tires that will last about 100 miles, suspension that will be hurt after one good pothole.. You know street car stuff.


Last edited by dfree383 on May 5th 2015, 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  dfree383 on May 5th 2015, 2:00 pm

SLord82 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
68galaxie wrote:Lets get back on track here.
I have a BBF and love them!  
I didn't like the laughing at an LS engine posting.
Not sure many street driven BBF could handle this LS street driven car. That is all I was saying.

Why do Ford guys have to belittle LS engines? I certainly like them better than the Ford Mod motors.

Anyhow, I like my BBF.


Last I checked the LS engine is produced by Government Motors....... We are Ford guys...... We don't like GM's as a rule when it's between domestic makes.... And we especially don't like GM engines being swapped into Ford cars.....Thats F'n wrong !

I'm a ford guy but a car guy first. Who cares who builds the engine when it's a good design?

Besides you can at least argue the LS is basically a modern interpretation of the SBF

I care...... And I'm a car guy too.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 5th 2015, 2:35 pm

[quote="68galaxie"]So any car with drag race type safety equipment is no longer a street car?
Who's definition is that?

That's not what I said....quit putting words in my mouth. A car with safety equipment may still not be track legal. If a car has all of the right stuff and in the right places it could then be certified. It would certified as a RACE CAR.

If you or anyone else want to call the vehicle something else I'm fine with that but, don't say it's not a race car too.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  SLord82 on May 5th 2015, 2:37 pm

dfree383 wrote:
SLord82 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
68galaxie wrote:Lets get back on track here.
I have a BBF and love them!  
I didn't like the laughing at an LS engine posting.
Not sure many street driven BBF could handle this LS street driven car. That is all I was saying.

Why do Ford guys have to belittle LS engines? I certainly like them better than the Ford Mod motors.

Anyhow, I like my BBF.


Last I checked the LS engine is produced by Government Motors....... We are Ford guys...... We don't like GM's as a rule when it's between domestic makes.... And we especially don't like GM engines being swapped into Ford cars.....Thats F'n wrong !

I'm a ford guy but a car guy first. Who cares who builds the engine when it's a good design?

Besides you can at least argue the LS is basically a modern interpretation of the SBF

I care...... And I'm a car guy too.

*cough* rhetorical question *cough*

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  supervel45 on May 5th 2015, 2:59 pm

OutLaw Track Street Race Car. Oh nevermind Grudge Vechicle. Razz Suspect

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 5th 2015, 3:15 pm

Lem Evans wrote:

If you or anyone else want to call the vehicle something else I'm fine with that but, don't say it's not a race car too.  

I didn't say it wasn't a race car, I said it was a street car (that races too)
Why are we arguing over semantics?

It IS a very cool car, and I am sure has well over $100K invested, and yes it is a street car that races at the track too.

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Chevy sucks

Post  460pulling on May 5th 2015, 3:33 pm

LS= GM = sucks that is my opinion on this FORD site. Hell my best friend with his 2.3L turbo stroker puts many a ls/ small block GM powered mustangs on the trailer every weekend.

Again this is a FORD site. Pull the string on that tampon already.

I really like how Chevy guys gotta use a ford car to be able to be fast. I rarely see a ford in a Chevy- the reason is because Chevy sucks. Again this is MY opinion. If you don't like it skip to the next post.

I however am excited that someone is willing to put their neck on the line to develop a new head for the BBF. The original A429 heads are a far cry from the newer SCJ heads and the P-51 heads are even better than the SCJ heads. I am sure that AFR has a few bucks in bringing these to the table. Hopefully they continue to improve on the design and grow. With the state of the economy it takes balls and money to do something like this.

I don't believe they were advertised to replace the Thor heads or the A-E460 heads. But from the looks of it they may replace other heads depending on how much meat is left on the 300cc version.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 5th 2015, 3:46 pm

I don't drive a GM car - or engine, and never will.

This is a BBF specific site - that is why I am here. I have a BBF street car - no cage, no roll bar, the only safety equipment is the factory seat belt.
That Zephyr is actually more streetable than my car.

I am happy to see another option for BBF folks. Although the inlet port looks like a much hated GM BBC port.

I wonder if the AFR intake could be used with a CJ intake port?
Square yes, but fit inside the CJ gasket I believe. Maybe a small bit of port matching?
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  460pulling on May 5th 2015, 4:01 pm

68galaxie wrote:I don't drive a GM car - or engine, and never will.

This is a BBF specific site - that is why I am here. I have a BBF street car - no cage, no roll bar, the only safety equipment is the factory seat belt.
That Zephyr is actually more streetable than my car.

I am happy to see another option for BBF folks. Although the inlet port looks like a much hated GM BBC port.

I wonder if the AFR intake could be used with a CJ intake port?
Square yes, but fit inside the CJ gasket I believe. Maybe a small bit of port matching?

I think the intake is going to gain where the victor and mafia lack with the enlarged plenum shortening the end runners. I am wondering what the port centers are on? Might need more than port matching.
I have a friend looking to build a new bb street pulling truck engine and he is really leaning towards the afr 300 with the raised ports. His second choice is the P-51 heads. Only downfall is that his cubic inch limit is 510.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  dfree383 on May 5th 2015, 4:04 pm

SLord82 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
SLord82 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
68galaxie wrote:Lets get back on track here.
I have a BBF and love them!  
I didn't like the laughing at an LS engine posting.
Not sure many street driven BBF could handle this LS street driven car. That is all I was saying.

Why do Ford guys have to belittle LS engines? I certainly like them better than the Ford Mod motors.

Anyhow, I like my BBF.


Last I checked the LS engine is produced by Government Motors....... We are Ford guys...... We don't like GM's as a rule when it's between domestic makes.... And we especially don't like GM engines being swapped into Ford cars.....Thats F'n wrong !

I'm a ford guy but a car guy first. Who cares who builds the engine when it's a good design?

Besides you can at least argue the LS is basically a modern interpretation of the SBF

I care...... And I'm a car guy too.

*cough* rhetorical question *cough*

Cough..... Smart ass answer..... Cough, cough.... lol!
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  supervel45 on May 5th 2015, 4:13 pm

Maybe you could use the AFR intake with the SCJ head, but not much point to it when you can get a Mafia and not mess with it. One good thing about another BBF head is that it brings competition to the market, and may drive prices down, or at least help keep them stable?

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  supervel45 on May 5th 2015, 4:39 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_mvMtCXeqk This car was street driven in my area back in the 1990's and is all Ford small block. Turbo's work on Fords too.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  72mav on May 5th 2015, 5:28 pm

supervel45 wrote:Maybe you could use the AFR intake with the SCJ head, but not much point to it when you can get a Mafia and not mess with it. One good thing about another BBF head is that it brings competition to the market, and may drive prices down, or at least help keep them stable?

Dont hold your breath on sales competion. F.Y.I. thats the reason Blue Thunders owner has slimed is production to nill becausd there is too much out there, beleive it or not.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  jasonf on May 5th 2015, 5:33 pm

72mav wrote:

Dont hold your breath on sales competion. F.Y.I. thats the reason Blue Thunders owner has slimed is production to nill becausd there is too much out there, beleive it or not.

They make nice stuff but I bet that is more self induced then anything else. A crappy website, poor marketing, old technology and limited availability don't make for a very successful business plan.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  SLord82 on May 5th 2015, 5:37 pm

72mav wrote:
supervel45 wrote:Maybe you could use the AFR intake with the SCJ head, but not much point to it when you can get a Mafia and not mess with it. One good thing about another BBF head is that it brings competition to the market, and may drive prices down, or at least help keep them stable?

Dont hold your breath on sales competion. F.Y.I. thats the reason Blue Thunders owner has slimed is production to nill becausd there is too much out there, beleive it or not.

Well, from the consumer point of view, Blue Thunder has been nearly invisible in the market for 10 years. And during that time production has been seemingly sporadic. I'm sure they are out there if I really look, but finding an AFR product is as easy as falling off a stump onto a computer with internet connection and typing in summit racing. Plus, I know there are plenty of guys out there that want/wanted Thors but can't easily get their hands on them for whatever reason. Blue Thunder is a great brand and a high quality product with almost no market visibility and some very apparent supply issues.


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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  wayney on May 5th 2015, 5:38 pm

68galaxie wrote:Lets get back on track here.
I have a BBF and love them!  
I didn't like the laughing at an LS engine posting.
Not sure many street driven BBF could handle this LS street driven car. That is all I was saying.

Why do Ford guys have to belittle LS engines? I certainly like them better than the Ford Mod motors.

Anyhow, I like my BBF.


sorry if i offended you about the LS . I had just got done listening to my neighbor talk for 2 hours about a Malibu he just bought with a stock LS/ 6 speed that supposedly gets 28 mpg and runs 12.20 in the quarter. I take one look at the walmart 235-70 15 tires on the rear and know better. they are good motors and the zypher looks cool.

on to the AFR heads, i am happy to see the offering. i like the possibility of a better performing street head than the P-51. time will tell.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  rmcomprandy on May 5th 2015, 6:07 pm

SLord82 wrote:
72mav wrote:
supervel45 wrote:Maybe you could use the AFR intake with the SCJ head, but not much point to it when you can get a Mafia and not mess with it. One good thing about another BBF head is that it brings competition to the market, and may drive prices down, or at least help keep them stable?

Dont hold your breath on sales competion. F.Y.I. thats the reason Blue Thunders owner has slimed is production to nill becausd there is too much out there, beleive it or not.

Well, from the consumer point of view, Blue Thunder has been nearly invisible in the market for 10 years. And during that time production has been seemingly sporadic. I'm sure they are out there if I really look, but finding an AFR product is as easy as falling off a stump onto a computer with internet connection and typing in summit racing. Plus, I know there are plenty of guys out there that want/wanted Thors but can't easily get their hands on them for whatever reason. Blue Thunder is a great brand and a high quality product with almost no market visibility and some very apparent supply issues.

Blue Thunder is ONE guy ... Art Francis.
How many people are supposed to be involved at AFR...?
I will bet you there is more than ONE.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  SLord82 on May 5th 2015, 6:23 pm

That really doesn't change anything I said.
If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility.

I really hope he can hire some help to get out from where he's stuck though.

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