AFR NEW HEADS

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  schmitty on April 14th 2015, 9:22 pm

Phillip will give them a real honest try. He works on more of a variety of stuff than most people realize. Snake gets my vote too. He will give them an honest shake down.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Darrin Gorham on April 14th 2015, 10:31 pm

I have 7 brand new ross 4.44 flattops for a460 head if someone wants to build a 514 test shortblock.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  BigBlockRanger on April 15th 2015, 2:57 pm

From Mark O'Neal

That AFR head is different from both the stock head and the P51/SCJ....of course. The moved the valves and rolled the intake to 14*.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  windsor on May 2nd 2015, 10:23 pm

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  nitrous.f on May 3rd 2015, 10:17 am

looks like a nice head for someone looking to make some power! should fit a lot of classes! Very Happy
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  bruno on May 3rd 2015, 10:22 am

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 3rd 2015, 4:29 pm

Very interesting read.

It does show that OTB SCJ heads need some love (as most already know) The .780" lift 275/284 duration cam would certainly be well over the lift range that the standard OTB SCJ's would be very turbulent.
Not a real fair comparison. I would have liked the same 521 combo with the big 275/284 .780" cam used with a P51 head as a benchmark. This would be much more of an apples to apples comparison, or a cnc ported SCJ head used.

727 hp out of a 521 and bigish solid roller is certainly decent. I am sure ported A429's, ported SCJ's, and OTB P51 would make very similar numbers.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  butterbean on May 3rd 2015, 5:18 pm

X-2 not a very fair test IMO!!!


Last edited by butterbean on May 3rd 2015, 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  whitefield on May 3rd 2015, 5:48 pm

Very good read !
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 3rd 2015, 6:15 pm

Here is what is not a level playing field:

AFR ran their "dedicated" intake manifold and the SCJ had to suffer the out of the box Victor intake manifold. The exit area/shape of the as cast Victor aint even close to what an conventional CJ/SCJ wants.

I'm sure the AFR head is a nice deal , but we gotta consider that these magazine articales are marketing and not pure tech regardless of the mfr. & they will take advantage of those kind of things. Also, I am not saying that the AFR stuff would not have make more power...just looking it as a level field. Putting on a 'mafia' out of the box manifold would told how much the real # was.

I guess It would come under the heading of "let people think what they may"...but...the comment about "upgrading" the springs on the SCJ heads would lead some to believe that the SCJ springs are crap. The SCJ springs are PAC1243 that are a quality spring and will service all of the lift that the SCJ's want. The springs were changed to service the .780" lift cam that was spec'd for the AFR heads.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 3rd 2015, 6:16 pm

Here is what is not a level playing field:

AFR ran their "dedicated" intake manifold and the SCJ had to suffer the out of the box Victor intake manifold. The exit area/shape of the as cast Victor aint even close to what an conventional CJ/SCJ wants.

I'm sure the AFR head is a nice deal , but we gotta consider that these magazine articales are marketing and not pure tech regardless of the mfr. & they will take advantage of those kind of things. Also, I am not saying that the AFR stuff would not have make more power...just looking it as a level field. Putting on a 'mafia' out of the box manifold would told how much the real # was.

I guess It would come under the heading of "let people think what they may"...but...the comment about "upgrading" the springs on the SCJ heads would lead some to believe that the SCJ springs are crap. The SCJ springs are PAC1243 that are a quality spring and will service all of the lift that the SCJ's want. The springs were changed to service the .780" lift cam that was spec'd for the AFR heads.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  whitefield on May 3rd 2015, 6:35 pm

Here is what I would like to see a head comparison on a 521 with SCJ heads having a Mafia intake and a custom cam that would work with there flow numbers and ports of the SCJ heads.

Then a 521 with AFR heads withe there intake and a custom grind cam, that works with there flow numbers and port design.

Then swap the heads and intake between the two engines two see what the out come would be.

One could also go the route of a off the shelf cam and 521 ,heads on then use the intake that best works with the heads.

Same test with the larger AFR heads, Trick flow heads ,and the p51 heads .

This would be a costly process, but I feel it would be more accurate test in my opinion.


Last edited by whitefield on May 3rd 2015, 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  windsor on May 3rd 2015, 6:38 pm

It was, however, the smallest offering...their 270 cc version.

I would have definitely like to have seen them test vs a P51 and Mafia intake, though.
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 3rd 2015, 6:52 pm

Here are my 'want to see' deals.

1] To see an ant eat a bale of hay.

2] AFR deliver the heads 15 months ago.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  whitefield on May 3rd 2015, 6:56 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Here are my 'want to see' deals.

1] To see an ant eat a bale of hay.

2] AFR deliver the heads 15 months ago.

I know it will never happen !

Ant will eat the bale of hay first! drunken


Last edited by whitefield on May 28th 2015, 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  466cj on May 3rd 2015, 7:20 pm

According to AFR's site they cut the AFR head short unfairly too. Says the 270cc heads are for up to 467ci and 6,200 rpm. The 285cc up to 512ci and 6,500 rpm. So guess they should have used the 300cc head based on what their website says.

Engine tests always leave a lot of what if's and questions on the table. The real test will be when racers get a hold of these heads and if we see improvements on the track. Time will tell. The 270 head looks like it would be ideal for a street/strip deal. I also wonder if the AFR intakes will be worth anything on non-AFR heads.


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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 3rd 2015, 7:28 pm

"According to AFR's site they cut the AFR head short unfairly too"

You think that AFR would not have put their best foot forward on that deal?

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  dfree383 on May 3rd 2015, 7:55 pm

Lem Evans wrote:"According to AFR's site they cut the AFR head short unfairly too"

You think that AFR would not have put their best foot forward on that deal?

One would think....
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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  68galaxie on May 3rd 2015, 7:57 pm

I agree with Lem,

Why would AFR not use the best head for the "job"? Everything else in the "comparison" was to their advantage (camshaft, intake manifold)
The unported Victor leaves a huge amount on the table.

Anyone know what port CSA is for the 270cc AFR head?

I am sure there will be some proper testing soon enough.

Cheers





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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  466cj on May 3rd 2015, 7:58 pm

Lem Evans wrote:"According to AFR's site they cut the AFR head short unfairly too"

You think that AFR would not have put their best foot forward on that deal?

I'm thinking that was the only foot (head) availalbe when that article was done.

No doubt will take some time to properly evaluate their offerings. I would have liked to see how the 270 head/intake would have been with the stock crate roller cam short block. I just cannot see doing a 10:1 pump gas engine with that much cam as a worthwhile test for most. FRRP crate with SCJ top end vs. AFR top end test makes sense to me.

14:1cr 557 with .800 lift cam P-51/mafia vs. AFR 300 and intake. Now that test makes sense.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  466cj on May 3rd 2015, 8:07 pm

68galaxie wrote:I agree with Lem,

Why would AFR not use the best head for the "job"? Everything else in the "comparison" was to their advantage (camshaft, intake manifold)
The unported Victor leaves a huge amount on the table.

Anyone know what port CSA is for the 270cc AFR head?  

I am sure there will be some proper testing soon enough.

Cheers
Think about the question. Why would they use the 270? Do you think that test would have been less favorable to AFR with a 285cc or 300cc head?  How many months ago was that dyno test actually done? I'd put my money on that was the only head they had available to loan out.

That article tells us one thing which is camming up a stock 521 FRRP crate engine will get its butt kicked by same cammed up crate fitted with AFR 270 heads and intake.


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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  466cj on May 3rd 2015, 8:26 pm

68galaxie wrote:
Anyone know what port CSA is for the 270cc AFR head?  


Don't know if this answers the question, but the AFR site lists Minimum CSA as:

270cc - 3.225 sq. in.

285cc - 3.275 sq. in.

300cc - 3.440 sq. in.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 3rd 2015, 9:10 pm

466cj wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:"According to AFR's site they cut the AFR head short unfairly too"

You think that AFR would not have put their best foot forward on that deal?

I'm thinking that was the only foot (head) availalbe when that article was done.

No doubt will take some time to properly evaluate their offerings. I would have liked to see how the 270 head/intake would have been with the stock crate roller cam short block. I just cannot see doing a 10:1 pump gas engine with that much cam as a worthwhile test for most. FRRP crate with SCJ top end vs. AFR top end test makes sense to me.

14:1cr 557 with .800 lift cam P-51/mafia vs. AFR 300 and intake. Now that test makes sense.

Agreed, that much duration and lift would serve few pump gas engine's needs. Designed to give a big number at the top i.m.o.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  Lem Evans on May 3rd 2015, 9:19 pm

Another method would be to get the better cam for my head and let the other head suffer for it......kind of like the intake manifold deal only a little different.

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Re: AFR NEW HEADS

Post  FalconEh on May 3rd 2015, 11:10 pm

^^^^I agree

Therefore would it not make sense to reason, that in order to do a fair and proper comparison of the heads, that they invite the players to bring their heads, intake, camshaft,and carb, to the dyno for the shootout on a given "cu/in - compression" test mule engine eg: 521"FRPP crate engine. They may be the best 460 heads ever, but these reveiws are always biased, and loaded, whether it be cylinder heads, or a new car/quad/or coffee maker... if the test is not equal or scientific nor are the results.
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